I always find it weird when guys refer to girls as "females". I can't help but read it in a Ferengi voice.
"Females and finances don't mix. Rule of Acquisition 94."
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I always find it weird when guys refer to girls as "females". I can't help but read it in a Ferengi voice.
"Females and finances don't mix. Rule of Acquisition 94."
My favorite thing about that is that, in DS9, a female ferenghi goes on to be the most successful leader of their people ever.
Last i checked Rom was a male ferengi tho (I know you mean Ishta)
Meh, it's a thing in the military because female military members are segregated and have different uniforms.
A woman in the military isn't described as that, they're a "femal soldier/sailor/marine" and all their uniforms, regs, standards, and housing comes with that prefix.
Even tho "female" descriptor comes first it's to ingrain that above all else they're a service member.
It's about what the noun is.
It took a couple years till I stopped slipping, and I understand why a service member would use it. That shit gets so beat intto you that you really don't even notice it. So when you get let out into the civilian world, it's hard to break the habit. Those people would appreciate being called out that what they're doing is weird for civvies tho.
But yeah...
99% of the people using it are just fucking weird.
"Female " isnt at all as bad as just... "female", the prior is a clarifying adjective, the latter is using it as a descriptive noun.
Like if I say "Female Officers suffer from above average sexual harassment" that statement isnt a big deal.
If I say "You are a beautiful female" to a woman though, it sounds disgusting.
I mean literally just compare these two basic statements.
"Go hand this package to that Female Officer over there" (This just distinguishes the Female Officer from the Male Officers probably standing near her)
vs
"Go hand this package to that Female over there" (this sounds like you are an alien visiting earth and talking to me)
I think it's as weird and antisocial as the next guy to call women "females" but I also think it's weird that it's treated like not receiving approval from women is the worst possible thing that can happen to a man when implying that women need male approval is obviously sexist
idk, some incels will certainly act like not getting approval from women was the worst possible thing that could happen to them, and then go and do something much worse to others
yeah but this post isn't about incels. posts like these shoot strays at all men
While I agree, it specifically says “those men,” so I think the idea is that men who see women as wombs or genes or whatever should also expect to be viewed with the same lens
It's not about that. It's their choice of insult. Saying "people who voted for Trump are retarded" doesn't make it not ableist just because you specified it's about Trump voters. Catch my drift?
Sounds ok to me (male).
"The male wakes up at 7am, so he can prepare for his office work; he's tired and being worn down, yet somehow remains resolute. In this way, he channels the spirit of the emperor penguin and endures."
Remember folks, the gender wars distract from the class wars we should all be engaged in!
The male looks in the mirror and realizes he'll die alone. He tries to distract himself with glass rectangles.
Oh, fuck off.
I'm not using my glass rectangle just to be reminded of that.
Some of these men call other men "males" as well. I used to call both genders by such "technical" terminology because I did not think it was offensive until a woman complained in a forum I frequented like 15 years ago.
TBH I feel annoyed that I can't use those terms because I know some guys use the term to intentionally dehumanize specifically women and I am not that sort of guy. But also I really tend to embrace neutral/technical/clinical language a lot because of a general disdain for romantic thinking and language.
Things are not more than what they are.
anything you call people will offend some people….
i’m sure some chucklefyck doesn’t want to be called a “people”… actually “you people” is often offensive.
it’s all about context, and being as respectful as is reasonable… for example, “retard” literally means “slow”… you could retard the growth of a plant. mentally retarded was just a term for having severe cognitive disabilities that made you unable to interact normally and made you need care to live… but through a history of people abusing those people, and of course using that as an insult made it offensive and dehumanizing.
with calling people “females”, i think it’s because it’s extremely uncommon except for when people are dehumanizing women… so when someone innocently use the term they can be seen as likely oppressive… due to context.
also, given the transphobia thing, and scientific/anthropology defining female as the biological sex and woman as the associated gender, one might think you’re slipping transphobia into regular conversation…
and of course people like simple heuristics so “guys who call women ‘females’ are likely bad people”, works well enough….
It's worth noting that the words 'male' and 'female' are adjectives, not nouns, so if you want to be technical then it's erroneous to use them thusly. That is, it is correct to say "I am male", but to say "I am a male" is grammatically erroneous.
In common speech, people don't tend to describe other human beings with these two adjectives, i.e. most people would say "she is a woman" rather than "she is female" (note, not "she is a female" because 'female' is not a noun). However, we do commonly describe animals using these adjectives, and colloquially the noun is commonly dropped. E.g., "it's a female" is seen as a perfectly normal way to describe a horse when it's understood that the other party knows that you mean "it's a female horse". This is why it is considered offensive to refer to a woman as "a female": it implies that she is an object, less than human and more suitably treated as livestock.
I only have two dictionaries, but both have male and female as both adjectives and nouns. In what dictionary are you seeing them only as adjectives?
Even dictionary.com has “noun: a male person” and “noun: a female person”, which goes directly against both your grammar point and your livestock point.
Hopefully you’re just a linguistic prescriptivist with a preferred dictionary that doesn’t match mine. Edit: removed a rude remark
That said, as a descriptivist, I accept that those words (as nouns or otherwise) are changing to sometimes be derogatory, so I try not to use them to describe people, just to avoid my intentions being misunderstood.
Just a thoughtless prescriptivist, repeating what I'd understood from previous such discussions, without having done my own due diligence. 🤷 I stand corrected.
Glad my suspicion was wrong, sorry for the rude comment!
But humans are an animal.
The main difference is that humans see other animals as purchasable or otherwise controllable and generally only refer to their sex when forcing them to breed. Women don't like the comparison.
I specifically remember the woman that complained that "female" was dehumanizing so that mostly tracks, but the issue with that perception is that people purchase male animals for breeding and people (men or women) who heard me using the same terminology never complained about the dehumanization of calling them males. I get that the social dynamics here are complicated of course. I suppose men typically are socialized to not care about being dehumanized or even perceive dehumanization as much. The asymmetry irks me.
I'll repeat that I don't use the terminology anymore for the sake of politeness but my thoughts remain nuanced on the matter. Where some see dehumanization, I see on the opposite end a coping mechanism in the form of a base level of romanticization. Implying we humans are free of our animal instincts or that we ought to be ashamed of the best aspects (IMO) of our animal nature.
Men who use the term "female" as a means to purposefully dehumanize are of course not only assholes but also annoying to me in the same way just inverted: I dislike debasing things that are neutral/positive for the sense of elitism or superiority. Or making something innocent and ordinary out to be crude and gross. I've never really related that well to men telling sex jokes for instance (and I've had some male friends who did that constantly and it annoyed me but I mostly just rolled my eyes at it).
I don't like crudeness at the same level as romanticization because that crude attitude also implies a sacredness that they're purposefully defiling. I don't like the implication of existing sacredness OR the desire to get under people's skin about it since that just contributes to the sense of taboo around sexuality and gender.
I'm not at my keyboard so my reply will be more brief than I'd like. Unfortunately, connotations will always have a significant amount of contextual nuance, and human communication is absolutely full of it. I appreciate that you make an effort to not upset people, and understand how certain terms have been ruined by those mis-using phrases. It is absolutely frustrating when something should be neutral. But language itself conveys semantics and tone, it will be impossible to have everyone take even the most innocuous sentences as neutral, because unless you're lecturing facts, people will try to attach a purpose to your words.
Just replying to show a genuine interest in a more fleshed out response from you when you are at a keyboard again, if you aren't up for writing more on it though, no worries.
thank god i don't rate my value as a human to if someone else considers me fuckable or not.
that is ick and ew no matter which gender
Calling someone a "female" to their face certainly makes you unfuckable tho.
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been referred to as a “male” or “man” or “cis gender male” and it doesn’t bother me one single bit. I generally just avoid people who get offended over every little “wrong” word
Amen to this man. People get too tied up in little words and stupid shit. So many bigger fish to fry but you'll get upset when someone uses the word female in any context.
I doubt any male would find this offensive. Call em males, they are afterall. If anything they will most likely play into the narration and make you say some absurd shit just for the lulz
Women’s lib has a mere 50yrs on it and there’s still work to do. People lose sight of how new it is for women to own their own bank accounts and such.
Maybe because men weren't seen as second-class citizens and aren't used to being objectified, belittled or physically and legally forced into a submissive role.
I don't like leaving serious comments on a place like this, especially since you are right that's how most men would react, just felt I had to say something since calling women 'females' is actually quite seriously wrong (even though they are afterall) and the fact that men don't experience this behaviour as something scary it makes that clear. I like this meme because it empowers women to do as they please, and I think you do not mean to defend mysogonists who want to dehumanise women, but some people might read into your comment 'well the reason woman get upset by this is because women are [something negative], while men are [something positive]'.
I had no idea that this term has a negative connotation to it. I knew it only as a very neutral, rational term. But when I literally translate it to my native language, then I'll start to understand it. Used in the given context, it's objectifying and degrading and I guess it's the same for English.
I only use the term 'females' in the context of ... some kind of discussion of medical or biological studies ... or to differentiate between a girlfriend and a platonic female friend...
But I am guilty of the whole open fridge and sigh thing.
However.
If I turned around and David Attenborough was physically present, narrating me... I think I would be overjoyed and just try to get him to watch a nature documentary with me.
Or even better, go outside and just continue to be amused at his narration of me, and see if I can't get him to a park or something and see if he switches over to narrating the ducks.
I'm not a native speaker, but I think it's normal to request a "female nurse" but asking for a "woman nurse" sounds weird. But saying "I would like my nurse to be a woman" sounds normal again
Seems like this is one of those things that women think will make men uncomfortable, but really winds up making their day because men are so starved of positive connection that even a neutral commentary on their life is refreshing because that means someone is paying attention to them.