this post was submitted on 05 May 2025
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I think a lot about how we as a culture have turned “forever” into the only acceptable definition of success.

Like... if you open a coffee shop and run it for a while and it makes you happy but then stuff gets too expensive and stressful and you want to do something else so you close it, it’s a “failed” business. If you write a book or two, then decide that you don’t actually want to keep doing that, you're a “failed” writer. If you marry someone, and that marriage is good for a while, and then stops working and you get divorced, it’s a “failed” marriage.

The only acceptable “win condition” is “you keep doing that thing forever”. A friendship that lasts for a few years but then its time is done and you move on is considered less valuable or not a “real” friendship. A hobby that you do for a while and then are done with is a “phase” - or, alternatively, a “pity” that you don’t do that thing any more. A fandom is “dying” because people have had a lot of fun with it but are now moving on to other things.

| just think that something can be good, and also end, and that thing was still good. And it’s okay to be sad that it ended, too. But the idea that anything that ends is automatically less than this hypothetical eternal state of success... I don’t think that’s doing us any good at all.

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[–] Echolynx@lemmy.zip 8 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

I do think it betrays society's lack of present-focused mindfulness. I've had a handful of friendships that I thought would go on to be quite strong and longlasting, but they fizzled out after a while. That's not to say they were bad or failed friendships. I'm grateful for the time I experienced with them.

[–] vane@lemmy.world 3 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (1 children)

You can blame George Lucas and Star Wars for this.

Do or do not there is no try.

Yoda

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[–] jmcs@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 18 hours ago (6 children)

I think you are looking into things in a non healthy way.

You are right that success and failure are not binary. Furthermore, every system, be it physical, living, or social, fails sooner or later.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to not fail for as long as possible, for if something brings joy or safety it's continued success is important. It follows that if something that's important to someone fails it's healthy to morn it and to try to learn from it to not repeat the same failure.

[–] KeenFlame@feddit.nu 2 points 13 hours ago

This is nice ways of saying you can change perspective on things by using more appropriate words. At no point do your viewpoints clash with op. But success and failure can certainly be binary if you want. They are words and mean different things for different people, and we hope to sometimes communicate a specific point and sometimes a philosophical one. It can be used for much. Failure as a word is useful but also touchy for a lot of modern achievers, or sofa enjoyers. It can be oh so binary for some people. Like, did you vote and try to prevent the faschist uprising that will ruin your life? It's a yes or no and one of those are very much a failure. If you don't want to see your failures you will become like the wounded manchildren that has need to use power and assert dominance to exist. At that point there's not much left of the reflection you wrote about. It's an antithesis for the practice.

[–] bramkaandorp@lemmy.world 2 points 13 hours ago

I see where you're coming from, but I don't think this post is about giving up all the time. It's about accepting when something doesn't work anymore, or isn't fun anymore.

If you started doing something for fun, but the fun is gone, continuing to do it may actually be detrimental.

Nowhere does the post say that we should just give up, merely that we shouldn't stigmatize endings.

[–] jpeps@lemmy.world 3 points 15 hours ago

Agreed, the flip side is allowing something ending to be sad too. Not everything needs a positive spin.

This just reads to me like a classic step of linguistic evolution, where people can't be bothered to caveat the normal word with a deeper meaning (eg "my business ultimately ended, but it was the right call and it was always be a great time in my life..." etc) and so think a new word is necessary, until inevitably the same thing happens, ad naseum.

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[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 23 points 1 day ago

Happily Ever After only exists if you happen to die at the happiest moment of your life.

[–] VampirePenguin@midwest.social 18 points 1 day ago (3 children)

A core Buddhist concept is impermanence, the idea of constant change in our world, and letting go of fixed ideas and outcomes.

[–] TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee 1 points 11 hours ago

that's just the world lol

[–] KeenFlame@feddit.nu 2 points 13 hours ago

I see you are holding on to that one

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[–] orcrist@lemm.ee 7 points 20 hours ago

I totally disagree with your characterization. I can come up with dozens of examples of how people don't think that the goal is "forever". That's not to say that you're lying, if you feel it then no doubt your feelings are genuine, but I don't think your feelings are a good reflection of contemporary society at large.

[–] SkyezOpen@lemmy.world 106 points 1 day ago (37 children)

Agree with most of these I guess, but marriage specifically is the one thing that's intended to be forever. Til death do us part and all that jazz.

[–] RadicalEagle@lemmy.world 63 points 1 day ago

There’s nothing wrong with forever, but it shouldn’t be some sort of “standard” we hold everything to.

[–] minnow@lemmy.world 50 points 1 day ago

The "death do us part" thing is a tradition, but marriage is a legal status. Not everyone is going to follow that tradition, and surely you wouldn't argue this ought to bar them from the legal status

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[–] moakley@lemmy.world 59 points 1 day ago (5 children)

Reminds me of last week when everyone was talking about how Bluesky is worthless because it's just going to go the way of Twitter. And I'm like, Twitter was a good thing for like 15 years.

If Bluesky follows that same pattern, great.

[–] TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee 1 points 11 hours ago

Twitter was never a good thing, AND I was never a Twitter user so i can actually say that.

like it actually did permanent damage to our culture

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 2 points 13 hours ago

And I’m like, Twitter was a good thing for like 15 years.

See, I was going to say that Twitter was a bad thing for 15 years.

[–] AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.net 35 points 1 day ago (7 children)

I feel an adjacent thing about Lemmy — The conversations I most value are ones I used to have on Reddit, but dwindled over the years, as Reddit discourse degraded. Something that's notable is that, on Reddit, the last bastions of meaningful discussion were the little niche subs, indicating that quality of discussion may be inversely correlated with the size of a community.

The federated nature of Lemmy makes it far more resistant to Reddit's fate, but I still feel a sense of inevitability that there is a timer on how long this can last. (Speaking as an aging punk), it reminds me of what happened to Punk: it went mainstream, and thus less punk. Some people have the instinct of gatekeeping a thing to preserve it, but everything needs fresh blood, and some of the people who discover punk via the mainstream are have a heart as punk as anyone I've met — we can't exclude the masses of "normies" without excluding these people too. In the end, I see that punk is probably dead, but the "true punk spirit" is alive and well, having moved into spaces that were less visible to the mainstream. Similarly, I expect that I'll always be able to find online clusters of cool nerds to have meaningful conversations with, because even if Lemmy dies a slow death, they will find (or build) a new space.

Ultimately, the inevitable temporariness of Lemmy (and other platforms like Bluesky) is quite a beautiful thing for me, because it forces me to be more mindful of the moment I'm in, and how, despite the world being shit in many ways, here is something that I am really glad I get to be a part of

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[–] Toldry@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago

Dan Savage (of the sex and relationship advice podcast "Savage Lovecast") says this frequently.

A short term relationship can also be successful. It doesn't have to end with one of the partners dying in order to be considered good and worthwhile.

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