this post was submitted on 04 Mar 2024
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[–] takeda@lemmy.world 75 points 8 months ago (4 children)

This is something that bothers me. I see EVs as future and a next step in car evolution, but why all of them have to be connected? Why most people don't have problem with it? I'm not talking about Chinese cars, but all of them.

20 years ago if you would say a car could be hacked one would laugh and say that this only happens in sci-fi movies, now this is a reality. And that's not the only threat, there's a huge implication with privacy. Why people are so not caring about it?

[–] JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl 11 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Because it is easy.

That is it. It is easy and cheap to make cars connected because of abysmal lack of regulation and the massive IoT chip industry

Integrating wireless radios into products is standard by now and chips required to do anything but 5g are extremely cheap. GPS is also dirt cheap. The biggest costs by far are design hours and certification.

Then they can make money because of the software "features" that only take man hours to develop as well as sell your tracking days after the fact. Together with the fact that if the market says that most people want those convenience features and couldn't care less about their valuable data as we have seen through every tech industry, there is little reason NOT to put in those features, especially when it enables OTA car firmware updates also.

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[–] Fisch@lemmy.ml 7 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I think it's simply that there's not much we can do about it

[–] Drigo@sopuli.xyz 19 points 8 months ago

So true, it's either buy a car which steals all of your data or don't buy a car at all. Which isn't really a choice for most of us

[–] unreliable@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 8 months ago

How many people use smart devices? On the door, tv, Alexia? People "want" to be hacked.

[–] johnyma22@lemmy.ml 6 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

They don't "all" have to be connected, the vast majority of available global models aren't (IE a lot of the affordable Indian/Chinese models).

The vast majority of models sold in the USA are IE Tesla. More affordable models like the Renault Zoe afaik aren't but I'm not sure how accessible these are in the USA. I'm not sure about the Chevvy Volt tbh.. Consumers can purchase to buy a non-connected vehicle.

Out of the EVs I have I mostly use the one that is connected so I can do automations to turn on climate control etc. Connectivity is a convenience/safety thing for me and I assume others...

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[–] assassinatedbyCIA@lemmy.world 54 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Obviously the whole security threat thing is just BS to justify restricting trade. You’re really not allowed to restrict trade under wto rules unless it’s a national security concern. It makes sense that the US would want to protect its industry but, it’s really infuriating that the US, the country that thrust neoliberalism free trade policies down developing countries throats, sometimes by force, now wants to do protectionism. Many developing economies growth was hampered and their economic ability to met their own needs to spiked into the ground by American coercion and sometimes violence. It further goes to show that the powerful countries really just do whatever the fuck they want often at the detriment of weaker nations.

[–] hellequin67@lemm.ee 21 points 8 months ago (7 children)

They did the same to Huawei and lots followed. This has nothing to do with security and all to do with preventing China's leap ahead of US as a global economic technology powerhouse

[–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 8 points 8 months ago (2 children)

It does have something to do with security.

For Huawei, the USA was concerned that China could build in backdoors to its communication technology similar to how the USA probably does with its local technology.

For EV, it is becoming apparent that battery and microchip technology has the same wartime industry power that oil and steel has, so the USA doesn't want to completely give up on those industries.

[–] hackerwacker@lemmy.ml 12 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Everything has something to do with security if you're paranoid/creative enough. It's a useless thought.

[–] hellequin67@lemm.ee 6 points 8 months ago

For Huawei , if that's the case why did US not target all Chinese manufacturers and only the one that, at the time, was becoming the most technologically competitive one.

As for EV the argument regarding takeover as a wartime industry whilst maybe true not it still smacks of US protectionist practice rather than a genuine security fear.

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[–] authed@lemmy.ml 46 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Tesla is also a security risk like all others

[–] Vendul@feddit.de 19 points 8 months ago (9 children)

You see, Teslas are controllable by CIA while Chinese cars are not

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[–] Roopappy@lemmy.ml 44 points 8 months ago (3 children)

It seems like the "cars tracking you" problem is a very real and very serious thing that should obviously be legislated separately of electric vehicles or country of manufacture.

I got a Mazda recently, and I was reading all the ownership paperwork, and the guy asked me what I was looking for. I said "I'm looking for the language about what data Mazda is collecting about me." And the guy laughed and said there's nothing in the paperwork about that. They just do it. You can't shut it off.

[–] Patches@sh.itjust.works 16 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

Question: Who is paying for all these 5G Cell connections that 'every car has'? How is my data getting from my car in my garage to (Brand name)?

I sure as shit am not giving my car my wifi password.

Is my Android phoning home? How does it know who to phone home to?

[–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 22 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Car manufacturers are. They probably get a bulk discount on relatively cheap data plans. It was enough for GM to keep OnStar running until Verizon got rid of supporting all 2G and 3G service in the USA.

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[–] SwingingKoala@discuss.tchncs.de 37 points 8 months ago

Do American next.

[–] dumpsterlid@lemmy.world 36 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

Yeah fair I am sure there is almost as much sketchy shit in Chinese electric cars as American ones, I just can’t find the fucks to care compared to the threat of ecological and agricultural collapse from climate change.

Like seriously I know it’s more satisfying and intriguing to talk security, technology, software and geopolitics but really who gives a fuck. Literally none of this even remotely matters next to the existential emergency that is climate change.

So sure, cheap Chinese electric cars lets go who cares honestly, we don’t have the damn time to focus on making this into a Cold War Tom Clancy novel before we run out of shit like clean water to drink.

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[–] PanArab@lemmy.ml 27 points 8 months ago (11 children)

Let the US lock itself from the world, that should work.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 8 points 8 months ago

Best possible thing that could happen going forward.

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[–] forgotmylastusername@lemmy.ml 22 points 8 months ago

We're in the middle of a technological cold war.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 19 points 8 months ago (1 children)

EV's are bad for the American OPEC monopoly

[–] spamspeicher@feddit.de 9 points 8 months ago (4 children)

American OPEC monopoly

What the hell does that even mean? The USA aren't even part of the OPEC^1^, how are they supposed to be in the "OPEC monopoly"? Or do you mean Venezuela with America? And why monopoly? OPEC/ OPEC+ are only responsible for 30-40%^2^ of crude production, that is a weird monopoly.

^1^ https://www.opec.org/opec_web/en/about_us/25.htm

The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) was founded in Baghdad, Iraq, with the signing of an agreement in September 1960 by five countries namely Islamic Republic of Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Venezuela. They were to become the Founder Members of the Organization.

These countries were later joined by Qatar (1961), Indonesia (1962), Libya (1962), the United Arab Emirates (1967), Algeria (1969), Nigeria (1971), Ecuador (1973), Gabon (1975), Angola (2007), Equatorial Guinea (2017) and Congo (2018).

^2^ https://www.bbc.com/news/business-61188579

...Together, Opec+ countries produce about 40% of all the world's crude oil.

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[–] naturalgasbad@lemmy.ca 13 points 8 months ago (1 children)

5G, garlic, cars...

I know this may seem like an unusual concept to capitalist America, but having more competitors drives down prices.

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 10 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (3 children)

Low prices aren't always a good thing. Especially for the working class when those low prices are on imported goods that replace the products these workers used to make. I thought we already learned that neoliberal policies aren't so hot for workers.

[–] PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml 15 points 8 months ago

No one has learned anything. The people who knew outsourcing was anti-worker were proven correct, but it didn't matter.

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[–] ComradeChairmanKGB@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 8 months ago

Industry competition: a threat

Deteriorating mental condition of leadership: ~~not a threat~~ what was I talking about again?

[–] turkishdelight@lemmy.ml 12 points 8 months ago

This pure projection. America spies through everything they sell. So they assume that everyone else is doing the same.

[–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 9 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Ah yes, because electric vehicles collect so much more data than your standard vehicles, they essentially are the same thing just different engine. Ever look at the data OnStar collects even apperently without an account? Ever look at the privacy policy the infotainment system has you agree to once or twice a month? it's scary.

how about just pass legislation that a foreign country cannot collect data on a vehicle in the US if we are that scared of it

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 8 points 8 months ago
[–] callouscomic@lemm.ee 8 points 8 months ago

"We need to reduce carbon emissions!"

"No not like that!"

Haha. It's just silly. I know nothing about the actual story.

[–] ExfilBravo@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

Biden Calls Chinese Electric Vehicles a Threat to American Shareholders. FTFY.

[–] toastal@lemmy.ml 4 points 8 months ago

Will the solution be public transportation infrastructure so cars aren’t needed?

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