I'd believe it. Doesn't excuse the 30000+ deaths.
this post was submitted on 05 Mar 2024
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The precisely correct take.
Netanyahu and Hamas are both awful but I really feel for the civilians on both sides that are caught up in this.
Aside from I. Oct 7th itself, are there substantial casualties to Israeli civilians?
We can ignore casualties caused by the IDF, here.
Any innocent life lost or harm caused is a substantial thing.
So that’s a no.
It’s rather disengenous to suggest “both sides” in defense of a genocide.
Was oct 7 a terrorist attack? Absolutely. But you’re acting like this war is an even match. It’s not. It is a genocide.
There's a lot of history of terrorism from both sides - Netanyahu is clearly more in the wrong here but Hamas are still a bunch of assholes. On both sides civilians are suffering from this war - Palestinians are certainly suffering more, but even Isreali civilians are suffering from family members lost and the ethical turpitude of living in a genocidal state when most of them do not want their state to be enacting a genocide.
I'm not saying that both sides are suffering equally, I'm saying that civilians on both sides are suffering... and their governments have no desire to lessen any of that suffering.
I think it's insulting to say what the Palestinians are going through is comparable to the Israel population having to feel bad about being the villains.
So outside of Oct 7th itself,
Has there been substantial numbers of Israeli citizens being harmed?
Yes? Or no?
Was Oct 7th a terrorist attack? Does anyone contend otherwise. And yes, I understand how losing loved ones to terrorism is hard.
But I find it patently ridiculous that I’m expected to sympathize with a nominally democratic nation when their leaders go full fascist; when they were elected with the full knowledge that they’re fully fascist.
Sorry. But as a whole, they voted for that.
This is in direct comparison to the fact that the majority of people who are dying in Gaza, weren’t even around to vote the last time there was an election there.
Hamas was too voted into power. Do you believe Palestinians deserve their fate then?
The last election in Palestine was in 2006.
Over half the Palestinians that are alive today were not alive then. Even then; less than half the voters voted for Hamas- they used a plurality system and Hamas had ~40% of the votes.
Further, Hamas was given/allowed funding by Israeli leaders (Netanyahu in particular saw to it) specifically to destabilize any Palestinian state.
So, no. I wouldn’t describe the government in Gaza as “democratic”; when the last election in Israel was about a prior to Oct 7’s attack.
Sorry but I'm not the one you've meant to reply to. I just added a comment and have no such views you present
The situation is definitely asymmetrical and qualifies as a genocide. That's not even something to be unsure of
If only there were a magical form of warfare that only killed intended targets with zero collateral damage....
Though those deaths are on booth sides' hands. Not just IDF.
If you mean the Palestinian deaths, I could've bought that argument when they were 2K, 5K maybe 10K. When there was some semblance of proportionality. When we are where we are, when hunger is used as a weapon for so long... I can't personally. At this point I don't think anything could wash the Israelis' hands. What's worse, the people who remain alive, the images of emaciated kids with missing limbs that will be broadcast worldwide once the media blockade loosens will keep reminding the whole world what went down. Parallels will be drawn to Nazi Germany, because it will look similar, even if the scale and details are different. I don't think any amount of human shields arguments can recover them from this. Personally I think this shit show is gonna break Israeli society long term.
Oh and the political blowback can't be contained to the region because there are Palestinian immigrants all over the world and many if not most have lost family and they won't stay silent, just like Jews didn't stay silent. You can't argue them into accepting that loss just like you can't argue Jews into accepting theirs. Except the numbers are way larger on one side. Expect Palestinian political activism across the West to continue and perhaps intensify as the full scale of death comes to light over the years.
Everyone involved in this conflict is awful in different ways. Doesn't surprise me at all.
Absolutely. I cannot fathom how people can justify Hamas' terrorism or Isreal's genocide.
I've condemned both groups since the beginning and support only the innocent civilians being starved, tortured, and slaughtered.
Despite concerted efforts to encourage them to come forward, the mission team was not able to interview any of these survivors/victims
This is a report about information gathered from Israeli sources, including the IDF.
This is a report from a UN team that flew to Israel and made a comprehensive assessment of all the evidence. I’ll also state the obvious, the UN team would can’t interview dead victims of rape.
If you’re going to post that kind of nonsensical statement, at least read the executive summary of the report.
nonsensical statement
Inability to distinguish facts from nonsensical statements, check.
Who did you expect to come forward? Rapists?
Victims or evidence, perhaps?
Are you really pretending you don't see the bias in trying to use UN as a source of information that's actually just second hand zionist bullshit.
That is not to say Hamas is innocent of rape and torture,
The point being that this is clearly Israeli PR, so they can try loaning the UN's credibility and pretend like hostages getting raped excuses the genocide they're doing on Palestinians (Palestine=//=Hamas).
You can find accusations of rape on both sides, ofc.
And if we're going by what the UN says, the UN is also of the mind Israel is committing war crimes and is mandated by the ICJ to take actions against the genocide and to condemn and punish any genocidal rhetoric. (Such as“We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly,” said by the Israeli "defense" minister.)
https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/02/26/israel-not-complying-world-court-order-genocide-case
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thanks
