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love my Oma, she's turning 90 next week (born 1934!) and was the first person I came out as bi to. Defo hanging one or two of these up in my dorm

Whenever people imply communism = lack of incentive for human greatness, I think about how my grandparents had lower class parents and were extremely poor (even starving) in their post-war childhood, but ended up leading pretty impressive lives, despite knowing they wouldn't live much above the material reality of their neighbors for it.

My grandma was an interior architect and my grandpa an astrophysics professor and professional photographer. Both were gymnasts in their 20's (my grandpa has a couple medals below). They didn't do any of that shit for luxury, they figured they'd lead a modest life in the standard plattenblau housing block as the other working people of their town (small but cute and cozy apartment, I was there not too long ago), and that's what they wanted.

They never needed to drive a car in their lives, and often visited countries across the Eastern Bloc by bike/public transit. My grandma always had a thing for making fruit preserves and cool pottery (still killing it), and my grandpa for art from wood carving (he was also a mountain climber). They had a nice community garden they always tended to too. It's a beautiful town with a lot to see, honestly can't wait to visit again

My mom was 19 when the Berlin Wall fell. She studied english abroad when everything went to shit under capitalism. Ended up moving to the US just because she met my dad. Usually when she tells an American she grew up in the DDR, they look all shocked and ask some insane shit like if she was starving to death, or if she knew anyone who was shot and killed trying to climb the wall (đŸ’€â‰ïž). Certainly no one was starving by the 70s/80s. My mom and all her friends and acquaintances had great childhoods. She had a small town, middle of nowhere school system that pushed sports, music, art, multilingualism, sciences, etc. on her heavily (when I did track and field in high school she always told me how her school's facility was 10x better lmao). The DDR fostered genuine human greatness. But ig they didn't have bananas at grocery stores and a hundred car brands like the west đŸ€·â€â™‚ïž

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[–] supafuzz@hexbear.net 35 points 8 months ago

The only good Germany

Feel like shit just want it back

[–] Greenleaf@hexbear.net 30 points 8 months ago

or if she knew anyone who was shot and killed trying to climb the wall

In four decades of the wall being up, about 140 people were shot trying to climb the wall. More Palestinians have been killed by a single US bomb but Americans will not stfu about the former while not giving a shit about the later.

[–] Ithorian@hexbear.net 22 points 8 months ago

I wish I was half as cool as your grandparents.

[–] the_itsb@hexbear.net 18 points 8 months ago (4 children)

but ended up leading pretty impressive lives, despite knowing they wouldn't live much above the material reality of their neighbors for it

not calling you out, just pondering on this attitude in general - why would anyone want to live better than their neighbors???

that idea is baffling to me, I want everyone around me to have at least as much happiness and enjoyment as I do, and I can't imagine that's an uncommon attitude around here

can somebody help me understand why "living a material reality above that of their neighbors" is something anybody wants??

They just want to "win" or what?? (and win what??)

[–] barrbaric@hexbear.net 8 points 8 months ago (1 children)

It's a huge things among boomers, if pop culture and my parents are anything to go by. Having less than someone else is shameful because we associate wealth with virtue.

[–] the_itsb@hexbear.net 7 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I don't understand why they want to be more virtuous than other people, either! đŸ˜‚đŸ€Š doesn't it make much more sense to want everyone to have the same amount of virtue???

I think maybe my lack of competitiveness makes it hard for me to understand why anyone wants to be perceived as "better than" others.

[–] Mardoniush@hexbear.net 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

It is a bit odd isn't it. Even in my occasional fantasies of ruling from a throne of skulls any power rush is just how much I'd finally be able to do to give people more agency and power over their own lives, individually and collectively. (this comment was authorised by the Campaign of Mardoniush for General Secretary of the World Union, 2035! Vote Mardoniush, Beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!)

[–] the_itsb@hexbear.net 3 points 8 months ago

you've got my vote

[–] Farvana@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Calvinism. There's a christian ideology that holds that material status in life is a reflection of god's approval. Having less literally means one is less godly.

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[–] Benluxjan@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I cant speak for OP but my Parents are also German boomers and a very rampant Part of Most boomers is the Attitude that If Others have it worse than you then it cant be that Bad for you.

You cant blame them all for it because some use it as a coping mechanism trying to be more content with what they have. For me that coping mechanism never worked because i never got how that should be making me feel better.

Then i got it. This only makes you feel better If you place your own wellbeing above others. This way you also trick yourself into accepting one of Capitalism oldest lies, the implicit scarcity of the world. Meaning If Others have it worse you implicitly have to be better Off because Theres Not enough for everyone.

Ofc in this system everyone has to Look for their own wellbeing. But i wont be Feeling better because Others have it worse. In fact in my Mind human suffering IS human suffering and Others having it worse Just makes me feel worse.

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[–] WhatDoYouMeanPodcast@hexbear.net 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

What if your computer doesn't run elden ring? kitty-birthday-sad

[–] the_itsb@hexbear.net 4 points 8 months ago

right there with you

[–] RyanGosling@hexbear.net 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

You can’t eliminate poverty mindset in just a few decades. Success, as we see it today and back then before the various socialist revolutions, usually meant you are able to move upward in society.

I don’t think many people have the explicit goal of “being better” than their neighbors, it’s just that’s how it usually ends up being. And a lot of the times success meant (and means) you don’t have time to look back on the people you left behind because you may be a paycheck away from ending up like them again. You start comparing yourself to others’ success or lack thereof because you’re worried about materially being in a worse spot than where you are now - it’s not always out of competition.

Socialist countries were changing what was considered valuable in life, as seen here with the state encouraging students to pursue the arts in addition to hard science and other technical fields. But it takes longer than a couple generations to understand that you don’t need a 5 story home and 3 cars to be considered “no longer poor and struggling” or “successful.”

But that’s why capitalist propaganda is so pervasive, especially back then. Imagine being uplifted from absolute poverty or in some countries, literal shackles and chains, and you get to live inside a house and sleep in a bed and go to school. Everything seems good, but then you keep seeing ads about America getting a bunch of pop stars visiting or fifty variations of mayonnaise or everyone is wearing jeans. Everyone is happy and smiling with their new treats. It’s not always malicious - in fact you may desire all that crap for your own country because you went through absolute destitution, and now you wish for happiness for others, and everyone is smiling on the American commercial so what’s bad about it? You believe that it would enhance the existing society, not replace it. I believe this was one of the main betrayals of the East Germans. Many believed that their capitalist brothers would simply enhance their lives, but when the walls fell, they immediately came in and stripped the East of its industries and services.

[–] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 14 points 8 months ago

That's genuinely awesome. Much love to your grandma!

[–] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 12 points 8 months ago

Usually when she tells an American she grew up in the DDR, they look all shocked and ask some insane shit like if she was starving to death, or if she knew anyone who was shot and killed trying to climb the wall (đŸ’€â‰ïž).

"oh yeah? It sounds to me like they were 1984 Stasi informants spying on their neighbors. Smh clearly they were commie elites smuglord "

Jokes aside that looks awesome! Care-Comrade

[–] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 11 points 8 months ago

That's awesome! Thank you for sharing! stalin-heart

[–] Crowtee_Robot@hexbear.net 9 points 8 months ago

Your Oma sounds cool as hell!

[–] ThomasMuentzner@hexbear.net 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)
[–] HexReplyBot@hexbear.net 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

DDR FOREVER

[–] jupyter_rain@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 8 months ago (8 children)

I see that DDR turned out nicely for some. Unfortunately my Grandpa was imprisoned for being against the governmet at the time there, while the other part of my family was basically cast out for being capitalists (They had a small "factory" with 5ish workers). So there certainly have been some downsides.

[–] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 32 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Not really by the sounds of it, mate.

[–] mar_k@hexbear.net 32 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

They arrested poor Opa until he stopped publicly advocating for fascism and HUMILIATED the small business tyrant by freeing his hungry serfs negative

[–] GenderIsOpSec@hexbear.net 27 points 8 months ago (2 children)

(They had a small "factory" with 5ish workers)

they say like it's a normal thing to have

capitalist-laugh ah yes, everyone gets those after they turn 18 dontcha know?

[–] replaceable@hexbear.net 22 points 8 months ago

They were doing just a little bit of exploitation, as a treat

[–] Mardoniush@hexbear.net 17 points 8 months ago

Yeah, like...I have no illusions that the DDR made some errors, but even if all of society was structured like his "factory" he'd be in the top 18%.

In any case, both the SU and the DDR were happy to place former owners in administration roles (made things simpler) as long as they were willing and well liked by the new Worker's Council.

[–] Kuori@hexbear.net 26 points 8 months ago (1 children)

sooo your grandpa was a nazi and your family were parasites

sounds like they got more or less what they deserved

[–] TheLepidopterists@hexbear.net 15 points 8 months ago

sooo your grandpa was a nazi

This was my immediate thought. He was a small business owner in the DDR. He didn't start running a private factory DURING the DDR, right? It under the prior regime, AKA the Nazis. What do you call a successful businessman in the Third Reich? A fucking Nazi.

[–] star_wraith@hexbear.net 26 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (8 children)

Political repression is obvious not ideal - political openness and free expression are objectively preferred over limiting political expression. But
 this is the ideal. The practical reality is that, in times of war every country represses political expression. In the US, UK, and France, for example
 in WWI or WWII, what happened to you if you spoke out against the war? Spoke in solidarity with workers in the “enemy” country? What if you expressed that you wanted your country to capitulate to the German Empire/Third Reich?

And make no mistake, for the entirety of the existence of the DDR, it was in a state of war. The capitalist west poured as many resources into toppling socialism in the east as they would a real shooting war. Allowing complete free expression would have opened the door to complete manipulation by the west. To do otherwise would be to betray the very workers - the great majority of the people - who built the DDR. You’re in a workers state and the state is entrusted with the protection of those workers. Anyone who is acting in a way that betrays those workers should be dealt with. Political repression isn’t great but as you saw what happened in the 90s in the former DDR, the workers suffered immeasurably from “losing” the Cold War.

There is very strong relationship between how much political expression a government allows and the level of existential threat that same government faces. In the US or Germany today, sure you can express your politics all you want. Because any form of political expression poses ZERO threat to the powers that be. If we were ever in a situation where in the US, the left posed a real threat, I guarantee you all our free speech protections would go out the window. By the way, in the free, capitalist Germany of today, what would happen to you if you went into the town square and openly expressed solidarity with Hamas - an organization which poses zero threat to Germany or Germans?

And to another point
 I am more familiar with USSR than the DDR, but I think it’s fair to say the former was more repressive of speech. And the reality is that, at least after Stalin, in the USSR you could fit the number of people jailed for political crimes in any given year into one-half of a basketball court (that’s in a country orders of magnitude larger than the DDR). That’s for several reasons, but a big one is that the USSR had a policy of prophylaxis. First off, if you were just complaining about your representative or if you were a capitalism enjoyer, you were generally left alone. You actually had to do enough to get on the radar. And if it got to that point, someone would approach you and tell you to knock it off, or there would be consequences. And lots of people who were brought to trial weren’t convicted because they weren’t a big enough threat, and plenty more similarly had convictions overturned. The point of all this is to say, in much of the Eastern Bloc, it took quite a bit to actually get in jail for political expression. If you’re at the point where you are in jail, there’s likely a long road that brought you there. So when you say “my grandfather was jailed for speaking out against the government”, I am going to apply a hefty dose of skepticism that he was just expressing his displeasure to friends at the local cafe or whatever.

[–] MaoTheLawn@hexbear.net 19 points 8 months ago

'If we were ever in a situation where in the US, the left posed a real threat, I guarantee you all our free speech protections would go out the window'

Look back to the red scare. The U.S felt somewhat vulnerable to the left, and repressed people for expressing leftist ideas. The 'House Un-American Activities Committee' (HUAC) existed until 1978. They banned all sorts of expression.

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[–] robinn_IV@hexbear.net 23 points 8 months ago

Unfortunately my Grandpa was imprisoned for being against the governmet at the time there, while the other part of my family was basically cast out for being capitalists (They had a small "factory" with 5ish workers). So there certainly have been some downsides.

I see only upsides.

[–] Greenleaf@hexbear.net 23 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

while the other part of my family was basically cast out for being capitalists

Good.

[–] mar_k@hexbear.net 22 points 8 months ago (1 children)

can you define "basically cast out"?

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[–] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 15 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Unfortunately my Grandpa was imprisoned for being against the governmet at the time there, while the other part of my family was basically cast out for being capitalists

Lmao

What's your opinion on immigration?

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[–] Mokey@hexbear.net 9 points 8 months ago (34 children)
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