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some more discussion of CIA infiltration in anarchist publications here https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2021/10/15/cointelpro-fbi-anarchism-disrupt-left/

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[-] Shrike502@lemmygrad.ml 69 points 1 year ago

shits on Lenin

Praises Norway

Don't know if it's western "lefties", anarchists or what. Whoever they are - they're a joke

[-] Frogmanfromlake@hexbear.net 25 points 1 year ago

NATO leftists. They live in countries that are a part of NATO and want to feel like a revolutionary badass to their conservative families while still parroting pro-NATO propaganda. Japanese "leftists" that do the same shit are honorary members.

[-] Shrike502@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 1 year ago

That's just pathetic

[-] polskilumalo@lemmygrad.ml 55 points 1 year ago

I'm betting CIA mouthpiece, there's just so much ML smearing on the front page it's stupid to think they might legit. Also, it's not 1920 and the USSR no longer exists! Your average worker does in fact give no shits about what happened 100 years ago!

Truly a waste of time for most, if this was a "party line" release then it maybe could make sense. But it's not, and so is stupid.

[-] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 69 points 1 year ago

I've always found the fixation on the negative aspects of USSR really weird, and frankly dishonest. USSR was a product of its conditions, and it's absurd to claim that such problems are somehow inherent in communism. If there is ever a successful communist project in the west, it's necessarily going to be rooted in the culture and material conditions present at the time. Incidentally, this is precisely why China says that their system isn't meant to be copied directly by other countries, it's a product of conditions in China.

[-] polskilumalo@lemmygrad.ml 41 points 1 year ago

Exactly! However if you try to reason being a communist or advocating communism in Poland most will end the conversation with a thought terminating cliche. Here are few:

  • You want to recreate PRL 1:1 !(Of course by PRL they mean the martial law period 🙄)
  • No oranges, no bananas! (mUh tReAtS)
  • ❄️🍑 (self explanatory)

They completely ignore reality and think within the propaganda they've been taught or have internalized.

[-] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 40 points 1 year ago

Indeed, and this is why the right is now growing rapidly. People become disillusioned with the liberal mainstream and they've internalized rejecting the ideas from the left which leaves the right. It also helps that right wing ideas aren't all that dissimilar from neoliberal ideas making the transition easier. Hence why places like Poland and Hungary are now run by the far right.

[-] Franfran2424@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 1 year ago

no off-season imports from colonized regions? MFW communists failed to bring oranges from south africa when its winter there and summer on soviet union

[-] polskilumalo@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 1 year ago

Martial law sanctions moment

[-] TheKanzler@lemmygrad.ml 37 points 1 year ago

This entire image reads like a joke to me

[-] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 33 points 1 year ago

Wow, I can't believe Lenin was personally responsible for all that horrible stuff that happened decades after he died! He truly was ahead of his time!

[-] Drstrange2love@lemmygrad.ml 30 points 1 year ago

More your typical anarchist publication

[-] GrainEater@lemmygrad.ml 26 points 1 year ago

we've received some reports, so a PSA for Hexbear users: sectarianism is allowed on Lemmygrad as long as it's not uncritical

[-] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 22 points 1 year ago
[-] ghost_of_faso2@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Also in no reasonable sense can criticism of right wing anarchism be considered sectarianism, I think we will all agree there is a certain sect of 'anarchist' that can be more clearly defined as being concered primarly with anti-communism and maintaining liberal hegemony.

[-] lckdscl@whiskers.bim.boats 24 points 1 year ago

I just found some information on this organization; according to their Wikipedia, they sound like the average anarchist with an anti-ML stance, but nothing that could influence them to endorse these anti-historical materalist talking points. These claims make a flashy bait of a frontpage, so that could be the reason, which is definitely reactionary but still better than if it was actually a CIA mouthpiece.

[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Not even CIA is stupid enough to fill it completely with CIA content. You expected their seal on the fist page or what? It's precisely why CONITELPRO was so successful, they don't agitate against minor things which can be stopped by the local pigs at any time if needed, they agitate against the real dangers.

Or alternatively, you might be correct, that would mean anarchists internalized that shit takes by themselves even without direct letters support - which is conicidentally also how COINTELPRO works.

Or, option 3, anarchists are like that without any letters influence. Wew, i hope not, though i seen enough to believe that too.

[-] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 4 points 1 year ago

Not even CIA is stupid enough to fill it completely with CIA content.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_hangout

[-] Trudge@lemmygrad.ml 21 points 1 year ago

Why are anarchists so vulnerable to subversion? Communist orgs have been infiltrated no less than anarchists (probably more thoroughly tbh), but we don't get subverted as often by the feds. No, don't mention trots please.

Is it because of their theoretical basis in idealism? The lack of a true vanguard party? Due to our historical antagonism?

[-] Franfran2424@lemmygrad.ml 17 points 1 year ago

they have no actual theory or organisation to resist attempts to divide and conquer, and they generally havent rejected western propaganda.

[-] redtea@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Partly a negative answer for you: it's not necessarily a lack of anything in anarchist theory so much as the presence of theory in ML orgs. Maybe that's the same thing? I'll explain my thinking. An ML group can't generally start coming out with anti-communist shit because it would be an immediate red flag. It would be an obvious honeypot from a mile away.

ML groups that kept the line after Khrushchev's secret speech might be infiltrated but it would stand out too much to try to get them to say they've now changed their minds – especially as MLs are confident that even more evidence is now available that shows they were right about the main points all along.

It's kind of expected for anarchists to reject AES, so state department messaging blends right in. That's not to say ML orgs don't come out with outrageous shite, either, like transphobia, but it's harder to publicly denounce the fundamental principles that MLs have long agreed on.

This is why I like Sakai's talk on security. The main message is that one of the best defences is learning to spot bad politics. Technical security, etc, is important, but humans will ever be the weakest link. That weakness can be identified in bad politics, in those without consistent principles. Anarchists may have consistent principles but when one of those is 'state authority is bad' their orgs can naturally be used as a mouthpiece for criticising states the CIA doesn't like.

Edit: Indeed, it seems that many non-MLs will say such things of their own accord, so some don't even need to be infiltrated.

[-] ReadFanon@lemmygrad.ml 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Alliance with Nazi Germany

War with Nazi Germany

Well, shit. How come both of these things are listed as a problem? Feels like if one was bad then the other wouldn't be?

Maybe they're upset about the order in which they happened?

[-] Anatolianin@lemmygrad.ml 17 points 1 year ago

Once again shitting on USSR's space program. This time with "BUT WHAT'S THE COST" argument.

[-] REEEEvolution@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 1 year ago

In the most ignorant way even, by then the USSR was food secure.

[-] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 11 points 1 year ago
[-] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 10 points 1 year ago
[-] 201dberg@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 1 year ago
[-] Rasm635u@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 1 year ago

What's the difference?

[-] redtea@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 1 year ago

I see nothing wrong… with this bit:

Gorbachov

this post was submitted on 16 Aug 2023
127 points (97.0% liked)

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