memes are inherently leftist, as they are meant to be shared. : memes

[-] lightnegative@lemmy.world 11 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Based on that logic, the Christian bible is inherently leftist because it's meant to be shared... whether you wanted it or not

[-] imnotfromkaliningrad@lemmy.ml 26 points 5 months ago

despite not being religious i have to admit that jesus seemed like quite a chill dude.

Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God

Matthew 19:24

[-] JayDee@lemmy.ml 2 points 5 months ago

Bullets are leftist! /s

[-] reverendz@hexbear.net 7 points 5 months ago

Bottom left: Comrade Chad.

[-] HootinNHollerin@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

Also inherently swingers

[-] MewtwoLikesMemes@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

sees image

What the actual fuck did I just look at?

[-] JamesStallion@sh.itjust.works -5 points 5 months ago

IE: Memes are short, contextless appeals to emotion and thus the perfect format for totalitarian propaganda

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 5 points 5 months ago

You're right, simple and to the point messaging is for dummies. Sophisticated liberal mind requires propaganda that's full of sophistry and contradictions.

[-] davel@lemmy.ml 0 points 5 months ago

“Totalitarian” is itself propaganda: The Origins of Totalitarianism

Hannah Arendt came from wealth and so unsurprisingly was anticommunist. Her work was financially supported and promoted by the CIA. This is a bourgeois liberal, anticommunist construct for the purposes of equivalating fascism and communism.

Monthly Review, The CIA and the Cultural Cold War Revisited

U.S. and European anticommunist publications receiving direct or indirect funding included Partisan Review, Kenyon Review, New Leader, Encounter and many others. Among the intellectuals who were funded and promoted by the CIA were Irving Kristol, Melvin Lasky, Isaiah Berlin, Stephen Spender, Sidney Hook, Daniel Bell, Dwight MacDonald, Robert Lowell, Hannah Arendt, Mary McCarthy, and numerous others in the United States and Europe. In Europe, the CIA was particularly interested in and promoted the “Democratic Left” and ex-leftists, including Ignacio Silone, Stephen Spender, Arthur Koestler, Raymond Aron, Anthony Crosland, Michael Josselson, and George Orwell.

If fact almost all of the “Western left” (that wasn’t repressed by the red scares) was captured by the imperial core’s propaganda machine: Imperialist Propaganda and the Ideology of the Western Left Intelligentsia: From Anticommunism and Identity Politics to Democratic Illusions and Fascism

[+] JamesStallion@sh.itjust.works -6 points 5 months ago

Lol, ok buddy.

[-] imnotfromkaliningrad@lemmy.ml 2 points 5 months ago

why are liberals so proud of their ignorance?

[-] JamesStallion@sh.itjust.works 5 points 5 months ago

Memes are short, contextless appeals to emotion and thus the perfect format for propaganda

Does this satisfy the theory pedant in you? Do you have anything to say about the actual point being made?

[-] imnotfromkaliningrad@lemmy.ml -2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

There is a quote by famous theorist of World Systems Theory Samir Amin on this term:

The concept of totalitarianism is itself a false concept, invented in the contemporary era for the purpose of confining social analysis and critique within the horizon of so-called liberal, democratic, and insurmountable (the “end of history”) capitalism.

stop being a shitlib and educate yourself about the meaning of words before using them. comrade davel gave you some wonderful resources and you are dismissing them.

[-] JamesStallion@sh.itjust.works 1 points 5 months ago

Ok, if you really want to ignore my point about memes and how they reflect poorly on those who use them for political messaging, we can talk about words.

Stating that a word was inventing by a rich person doesn't make it invalid, stating that the CIA promoted an idea also doesn't make it invalid. Nevertheless, if totalitarian isn't a word we are allowed to use in you doubleplusgood circles, how about you give me a word that describes a country with a single party, ruling in perpetuity? I would say memes are useful for [insert your word here] propaganda

[-] davel@lemmy.ml 3 points 5 months ago

how about you give me a word that describes a country with a single party, ruling in perpetuity?

You’re still trying to construct the thing we’re saying is nonsense. Typically attributed to Julius Nyerere: The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.

The US has has been ruled by the bourgeoisie since the 1776 bourgeois revolution. The wealthy, white, male land-owning, largely slave-owning Founding Fathers intentionally constructed a bourgeois democracy, which was never meant to represent us, and never has, despite eventually allowing women and non-whites (who aren’t disenfranchised by the carceral system) to vote. BBC: [Princeton] Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy

In socialist states, the “one party” is the party of the working class. The two major parties today in the US are parties of the capitalist class, as were the Federalist, Democratic-Republican, and Whig parties before them.

[-] JamesStallion@sh.itjust.works 2 points 5 months ago

Excellent, the US is also one party. I don't disagree. Now have you noticed that things are actually getting worse there now that all discourse is in meme format?

[-] imnotfromkaliningrad@lemmy.ml 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

pure idealism. what kind of brainworms do do you have in order to attribute the determination of material conditions in the us to fucking memes of all things instead of the decline of the empire, as well as the sharpening contradictions of capitalism? clown shit

[-] JamesStallion@sh.itjust.works 2 points 5 months ago

I would say that political discourse has become shorter, more emotional, and less informed and complex, and this very visible in the use of memes rather than arguments in modern politics. As a theory heavy person I would have thought you would agree that this is contributing to worsening conditions all around.

[-] davel@lemmy.ml 5 points 5 months ago

Our theories are materialist ones, not idealist ones. We believe that ideas fundamentally arise from material conditions. Those ideas do affect the material in turn, dialectically, but the material conditions are still the prime mover. Dialectical materialism (and historical materialism) are fundamental to all Marxist theory.

We reject the popular liberal theory that, if one presents one’s case well enough in the “marketplace of ideas”, that those ideas will win the day. That doesn’t mean ideas shouldn’t be presented—because that’s clearly what I’m doing here—only that it’s not sufficient. The capitalist class spends billions each year pushing their propaganda and suppressing any that oppose it. They know very well what works. Just having a good idea and presenting it cogently won’t cut it.

Memes aren’t even a new thing. 18th century memes don’t look alien to us. And we’re not spending all of our time in the meme mines.

I would say that political discourse has become shorter, more emotional, and less informed and complex

I’m not sure how I’d go about trying to prove or disprove this. Online social media ain’t everything. I think most people are abysmally uninformed/disinformed and disengaged, but I don’t know how I’d measure these or compare them to the past. In 1993 Noam Chomsky wrote, ”the general population doesn't know what's happening, and it doesn't even know that it doesn't know.”

[-] davel@lemmy.ml 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

That is not why things are getting worse in the US. I could go on at great length on why things are getting worse, but I don’t think this is the time or place for that.

This post is actually a great example of how memes can be effective. The meme is the hook. The conversation that’s being had around the meme is the meat & potatoes (apologies for the mixed metaphor).

Going back to an earlier comment of yours:

Memes are short, contextless appeals to emotion and thus the perfect format for propaganda

By “context,” I think you mean something different from what I’m about to say, but memes are densely packed with context: our shared cultural context. They are effective at communicating so much out of seemingly so little by leveraging our shared context. The a-ha moment of perceiving the meme through recognition of the implicit context is the hook.

[-] JamesStallion@sh.itjust.works 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

You're right that that is not at all what I mean by context. I mean the kind of context that can make what appears to be a simple question much more complex.

I would say this thread supports my position more than yours, in that the only engaging discussion happening here is a result of attacking memes as propaganda. The actual content of the meme （socialism and memes are both about sharing) has been almost entirely ignored, probably because it is so shallow and meaningless (as are all memes) that there really isn't much to say about it.

[-] Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com -4 points 5 months ago

dEmOcRaCy have only one pArRtY

But sEvErAl.1!1!

Lol

The force of democracy isn't having 100 parties but the ability to Kick the ruling one out.

There, for you all wondering why so many people prefer democracy over some autocracy.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 7 points 5 months ago

One has to have more brain worms than RFK Jr. to think that democracy is measured by the number of parties. What actually matters is whose interests the parties represent.

[-] davel@lemmy.ml 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

We’re knee-deep in a thread about totalitarianism being nonsense, and now you trot out its synonym?

Authoritarianism is whatever the Council on Foreign Relations says it is this week.

[-] imnotfromkaliningrad@lemmy.ml -2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

your question was stupid and essentially just buzzwords. rebuttals to absolutely everything you said can be found in comrade davels resources. also im not sure wether you want to reference orwell, considering that he was a snitch, a cop and a rapist (and his books are bad.)

[-] JamesStallion@sh.itjust.works 1 points 5 months ago

Rebuttals to memes lacking context and being appeals to emotion? That's all I actually said. You folks haven't talked about anything except the impurity of the sources of my terminology.

Memes

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