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felipeforte@lemmygrad.ml

How do you radicalize a friend who just says he doesn't have an opinion on anything? (lemmygrad.ml)

submitted 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) by KrupskayaPraxis@lemmygrad.ml to c/comradeship@lemmygrad.ml

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About Palestine, when I asked him he said he didn't have an opinion. And when I said that Israel is an aprtheid state that's comming genocide he replied with ok cool. he said he doesn't follow the news but with how persuasive the genocide has been I don't think he can use that as a way to claim ignorance. I've been sharing stuff about the genocide since october 7th and he watches my stories. And there have been multiple discussions about it with him present (where he ignored it). The reason I finally got him to talk about Palestine this time was because I realised I have to ask him directly about it whenever it was brought up in our friend group. But then he said those things I already brought up.

He thinks that politics is an opt out and that you don't have any responsibility if you claim ignorance or indifference. He treats it as other people's hobby that he has nothing to do with. He's the same way with other political topics. With black pete (a racist tradition here in the low countries) he explicitely says that he tries to escape the discussions so he doesn't have to deal with it. He feels more annoyed by anti-racist demonstrations than by racism. But when I did have a discussion with other friends about abortion, he did jump in sometimes with pro-abortion views, which was nice and shows it is possible to get him to care. He said he doesn't follow the news either, which is true, but I think he was saying that so he didn't have to give an opinion on Palestine. But I was trying to tell him that following the news is important and I gave him a recommendation for a news account to follow on instagram (@hetnieuws_nl) and even sent it to him via chat. Later I asked him if he checked it out yet, but he said he saw it but didn't click on it. My other friends in this group who are right wing say that he is left wing, but I corrected them on it, and said that he is right wing like them. His dad is a raging zionist and I think that's part of the reason why he's that way.

I think I will keep asking him about his opinion whenever a political debate is happening and not taking claiming ignorance as an answer. I think I'll also share instagram news posts with him once in a while via instagram chat. We already share a lot of stuff to each other there, so that's not a bad idea. He likes Irish music as well and am thinking to show him IRA songs as well. But don't want to force my beliefs on him too much because I don't want to push him away.

For my other friends, I do have political discussions with them. They are very right wing and whenever I have a discussion with them they treat it as just another fun interesting discussion. But I don't view it that way. I don't want to have a discussion about black pete or if abortion should be legal. And I think it shows they don't care about what I have to say but treat it as a game to see who can come up with the best arguments. How can I counteract this? I was just thinking about giving my own opinions, saying they are non-negotiable and shutting the debate down after that saying I don't want to debate it.

They are good friends and accept my gender identity and expression, I just hate their politics. But I'm glad they have at least one leftist friend to get them sort of out of their bubble. But I'm also glad I have another friend group with only trans friends where this shit isn't normal.

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[–] ksdhf@lemmygrad.ml 26 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Have you considered the fact that your friend is secretly reactionary but knows that his beliefs are unpopular so doesn't want to publicly voice them? I think continuing to bombard him with info will only push him further away, you cannot brute force people into being politically active or have empathy for far away peoples (i.e. Palestinians). Does your friend like history? Maybe you can talk to him about historical events without making it seem like you are lecturing/moralising.

[–] KrupskayaPraxis@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 2 months ago

I think part of it is that he's afraid to pick a side in a controversial topic, not knowing he already picked a side. I don't think he secretly identifies as reactionary.

[–] commiewolf@lemmygrad.ml 18 points 2 months ago (1 children)

One only remains apolitical so long as their lives aren't severely affected by the system. Because as long as they think it works well enough for them, they have no incentive to care about it. But as soon as they end up at the wrong end of the scales, that's when they start to look for answers. As a responsible socialist the best you can do is be there when they end up in that situation, and show them the right path.

I've had many "apolitical" friends end up turning to reactionary or fascist ideas once life hits them hard, and I regret that I didn't do a good enough job noticing this or presenting the correct ideas to them on time.

[–] davel@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 2 months ago (1 children)

One only remains apolitical so long as their lives aren’t severely affected by the system.

Often true, but not always. I was raised and remained apolitical for a long time. My curiosity and intellectual honesty was my eventual undoing. The system has never let me down, but I still want to bite the hand that’s reliably fed me.

[–] commiewolf@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 2 months ago

Of course if you take up a personal interest, sure you could become invested in politics as you could with any other topic or fascination. But this person in the post is clearly shown to not have any sort of curiosity or interest in that way. Taking up an interest in politics isn't the same as with sport or art, it's something that shapes your day to day life at all times.

The way I see it, interest in politics is similar to interest in one's personal health. Most people don't take a very active interest in it, happy to not think about it so long as there isn't any trouble, while others find it gratifying to do so, and take a more proactive action in learning, improving and teaching others about it.

But for that large number who don't care, they won't want to alter their lifestyle to take up the advice of others who know better. All that is until suddenly they're met with the result of their inaction and inattention, which is when they are easiest to convince.

[–] deathtoreddit@lemmygrad.ml 14 points 2 months ago

If they get hit by life in the capitalist West, be sure to give them a helping hand on one, and on the other, some theoretical book explaining their predicament

[–] lil_tank@hexbear.net 11 points 2 months ago

Make politics cool and interesting for them. We treat politics as a science, and science vulgarisation is fun and makes you open your eyes to the world.

If they simply have zero curiosity whatsoever maybe just make sure they don't feel threatened in their grilling so they don't get contaminated by reactionary talking points. Convince them that grilling is cool with trans people basically

[–] D61@hexbear.net 9 points 2 months ago

There is no guarantee they'll change their attitude no matter what you do.

If they aren't immediately shutting down any conversations you try to have with or around them about these topics, just keep having them.

If possible, "just be normal". Not everybody is a political junkie so their desire to have and express an opinion about things might just be very weak. Keep sending info to your friend but if its obvious that they aren't reading every 30,000 word article you find or watching every 10 hour YouTube video ... its probably a sign to be a bit more selective in what you're sending their way. Try fewer things, shorter in length and more directly to the point.

How often do you ask them what they think/feel about things that aren't directly related to something that you've been vocal about? Maybe there's a chance that they would like to talk about things but know they'd be steamrolled by the debate lords in the group.

[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I think just beating them over the head won't get you anywhere. It's probably worth asking them why it is they care about abortion and if they care about adjacent issues.

Regarding the conservatives, I think it would be good to try to talk with them individually, so you aren't being implicitly trivialized by going against a crowd.

[–] Lenins_Cat_Reincarnated@hexbear.net 5 points 2 months ago

I think that for most people the best way to radicalisation is to find something that they care about. As fucked up as it seems, I don’t believe we can get everyone to care about the genocide and if we can, then it’s not the most efficient way to radicalisation. If your friend does not care about what’s happening in Palestine (it seems like he’s getting so much contradicting information from you and his father that it’s becoming too complicated for him to form an opinion) then it’s probably better to focus on something else.

You say that he cares about abortion rights which is a great entrance point to talk about the self determination of people over their own bodies that is being infringed upon by transphobes and misogynists.

He probably also cares about his work conditions that he likely has no say over, and the fact that his hard work is used to enrich others. Everyone should be aware that they deserve the fruits of their own labour, it’s something that most people will agree on if you talk to them long enough.