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Win? Move further right. Lose? Move further right. (lemmy.world)

submitted 1 day ago by IndustryStandard@lemmy.world to c/whitepeopletwitter@sh.itjust.works

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[-] Uruanna@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago

The numbers on that screen contradict the conclusion (of the media): IND voters are rising and DEM voters are decreasing. Those IND are not more conservatives, they're the Cornell's and the Stein's and such (I know, Russian plant, not the point, voters are not right wing). The left wing is leaving the DEM, you don't get them back by moving right. What the fuck is NBC talking about?

[-] BeardedBlaze@lemmy.world 1 points 19 hours ago

Not sure I agree with your assumption of IND. Many of us don't want to be locked to a party for the primaries.

[-] Seasm0ke@lemmy.world 20 points 1 day ago

What primaries?

[-] w3dd1e@lemm.ee 23 points 1 day ago

I say this as a woman who is pretty bummed to say this.

I don’t think women candidates can win over enough men to get votes on a national level. Radicalized men aren’t ever going to empathize with women and sure as hell aren’t going to vote for one anytime soon.

Obviously there is a lot more than that, but it’s a big part of it.

[-] orcrist@lemm.ee 5 points 23 hours ago

Well yeah. Trump was campaigning on discrimination. I don't know how you can measure what percent of it was racism and what percent of it was sexism plus a little bit of xenophobia and various other such b*******.

I do think there is hope for women candidates because there's a lot of women in the country and you don't need to get the majority of men to vote for you. If Harris or Hillary had a platform as good as Bernie Sanders, I think either of them could have won, easily. Of course that's just my opinion, and the only way to actually find out would be to give that a go next time around.

[-] isaaclw@lemmy.world 22 points 1 day ago

I still think it was policy and not gender :/

But I understand that the evidence isn't exactly clear on this.

[-] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 day ago

Exactly.

Harris was dead last on my preferred candidate list in 2020, and it had nothing to do with her gender and everything to do with how little I trusted her due to her background as a cop. And she got hammered in the primaries that year, so I'm certainly not alone. I didn't like her performance as VP (she had a pretty poor public opinion score up until she became the candidate for Pres), and she certainly didn't convince me that she had any interesting policies this time around.

Likewise for Hillary Clinton. She was dead last on my preferred candidate list long before she won the nomination, and she didn't get any better after winning.

In both 2016 and 2024, I voted for a third party because neither major candidate interested me (and it didn't matter because Trump won my state by ~20% in each election anyway). I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people who would have voted Democrat didn't bother voting or voted for a third party because they found her uninteresting. Her policies suck, her campaign sucked, and she has pretty much no charisma. It has nothing to do with her being a woman and everything to do with her being a crappy candidate.

So my vote is on a mixture of:

no real primary, just a candidate switch (feels very undemocratic)
poor, vague policies, especially on the issues people seem to care about most (inflation)
very little charisma
weird obsession with getting celeb endorsements instead of appealing to the average person

Being female doesn't register at all.

[-] Rolder@reddthat.com 6 points 1 day ago

On one hand, I get it. On the other hand, the other choice is orders of magnitudes worse in every category.

[-] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 6 points 21 hours ago

the other choice is orders of magnitudes worse

Both can be true.

The other side being worse doesn't necessarily motivate your base to support you, you need to actually motivate them to get out and vote. It also doesn't necessarily motivate people on the fence either. If you aren't an attractive candidate, you can't rely on the unattractiveness of your competitor to win you the election.

It seemed the DNC banked on the public caring that Harris is a woman of color and popular among celebrities, and I doubt the public particularly cares about any of that. Her policies were weak and she came off as not really having a plan, or in other words, riding on Biden's coattails. That's not a compelling argument...

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[-] zarkanian@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 day ago

It would be foolish to say that gender wasn't a factor, but I don't think it was the deciding factor.

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[-] iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 day ago

Americans choosing Trump twice instead of a moderate woman candidate is all the proof I need that the country won't have a woman become president in my lifetime.

[-] taladar@sh.itjust.works 5 points 23 hours ago

I don't think Hillary Clinton was rejected primarily because she was a woman but primarily because she was about as establishment as it gets in an election that was shaping up early on as an anti-establishment election.

[-] Landsharkgun@midwest.social 1 points 16 hours ago

Omar would have done better than Harris. And she's the 'scary communist'. And Muslim. But she has actual policy and very clearly communicates it. That's literally the baseline for any candidate for any race, and somehow Harris fucked it up. Stop running candidates who only see regular people on TV and maybe you'll get a win.

[-] iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works 1 points 16 hours ago

This election was not decided on clearly communicated policy because Trump has not clearly communicated anything in his life.

[-] Landsharkgun@midwest.social 1 points 14 hours ago

On the contrary. He told voters that 'those people' are they reason they're hurting and he would fix it. That's a very clear message, and one a lot of people responded to.

Harris didn't even seem to realize there was a problem.

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[-] Anticorp@lemmy.world 41 points 1 day ago

do you risk nominating candidates who then can't appeal

Here's a wild idea. Let the voters nominate their own candidates in a primary without tons of interference from the DNC and super delegates. Or you know, just allow a primary at all.

[-] WanderingVentra@lemm.ee 17 points 1 day ago

Nooooo, can't have that. Then you guys might pick the wrong candidate, you see?

[-] Anticorp@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

Exactly. They'd rather lose with their chosen candidate than win with ours.

[-] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 5 points 23 hours ago

They pulled Biden out of retirement to beat Bernie.

[-] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 90 points 1 day ago

I'll never understand why people think the people running the DNC aren't total fucking liars that will say anything for money.

Beating trump isn't hard.

But beating him while grifting a billion dollar campaign funded by the people your voting base hates is very difficult.

Unfortunately when confronted with the choice, the DNC has shown us three elections straight that they'll always pick money over votes.

So we either need to leave the party or replace leadership.

If we don't do either 2028 will be exactly the same as the last three elections.

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 32 points 1 day ago

So we either need to leave the party or replace leadership.

I think at this point, leaving is the only way forward. The DNC/ the DCCC have shown that even given effectively infinite money, they don't have the competence to win elections. They are always willing to rat-fuck popular candidates in favor of establishment candidates. There is no fixing this with Citizens United in place.

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[-] sundray@lemmus.org 21 points 1 day ago

Beating trump isn’t hard.

He won three out of four primaries, and two out of three general elections. It seems... pretty fucking hard.

[-] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 19 points 1 day ago

Only hard for those as incompetent as the dnc

[-] Anticorp@lemmy.world 19 points 1 day ago

Well, he won his own party primaries too, and by a landslide. So it's not just the DNC that can't beat him. People are still trying to play by the old playbook where things like qualifications, competency, and sanity matter. Trump is out there doing something that absolutely works, telling the people whatever they want to hear, regardless of how stupid, impossible, or untrue it is.

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[-] Nutteman@lemmy.world 29 points 1 day ago

Bold to assume we will have another election

[-] brotundspiele@sh.itjust.works 22 points 1 day ago

Don't you worry, you'll have an election. Even the Germans had elections during their darkest times. That doesn't mean you'll have a choice though.

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[-] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 39 points 1 day ago

MOVE LEFT DAMMIT

[-] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 22 points 1 day ago

Capitalism will continue shifting right until there is only fascism.

[-] refurbishedrefurbisher@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 20 hours ago

Historically, yes. Thankfully, history is known to not repeat itself.

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this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2024

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