If I find out you voted for Trump in 2016, I will judge you but I could forgive you.
If I find out you voted for Trump in 2020, I will judge you and will have a hard time forgiving you.
If I find out you voted for Trump in 2024, you're dead to me. Friend, family, doesn't matter.
I wish I could say the same but I can't bring myself to cut my dad out of my life. Yesterday ended our 2 year streak of talking every day.
He learned years ago not to bring up politics with me because he knows I will destroy all of his arguments and bring receipts. He's let a comment or two slip at a family gathering but he knows my phone's coming out of I'm within earshot... No, dad, he was definitely friends with Epstein - here's a quote saying so from the 90s.
I've thought a lot about bringing it up or at the very least what my response would be if he does. I want to tell him that he has 20 years left at best but I have to live in the world he voted for a lot longer. I want to tell him that I think my sister would be right to never speak to him again. I want to tell him that she may be young, but in 15 years my niece is going to rightfully resent him for what he supported.
But what I think I'm going to actually tell him is that he fucked up so bad that I HAVE to assume he truly does not understand the implications of this if I ever want to be able to look him in the eye again.
And every single time Trump does something shitty as president, I will be texting him what it was and why it's bad whether he likes it or not.
My father and I became estranged about a decade before he passed, for reasons other than but similar to politics. Our world views just did not align and in ways that I could not ultimately forgive. We did not really ever reconcile before his passing and I don't regret it to this day. I don't believe in unconditional love and he did not earn mine, imho. I am estranged with most of my extended family for similar reasons. I'm not really willing to compromise certain morals.
This might sound bad but I wish I had a similar level of resolve. I tolerate far too much insanity from people in my family.
I'm cutting them out completely. I can't stand people who sit back and do nothing or support fascism.
This will be the first year in almost 20 years that I simply don't visit the family for christmas, with the exception of the pandemic.
From now on, if you're a trump supporter or you "sat this one out", I'm not wasting any effort on you, continue sitting this one out.
The good fight. Keeping majority voters accountable for the choices they impose on everyone else is as much a part of democracy as anything else, especially with candidates who actually deliver on the promises they make during elections.
God speed. I hope you can be reunited with your family again.
I did in 2016. I was younger and angry at the world. That judgment is deserved. By 2020 I realized that I had made a terrible mistake and was sure not to repeat it. It’s good to read that you can at least understand the perspective of how someone could have at that time.
Some people never learn. This would appear to be the case for most Americans.
What made you change your mind?
This may not be a satisfying answer, but I went through some hard times between 2016 and 2020 and gained more compassion for how close any of us are to destitution. It became really difficult for me to be as selfish after those years because, well, I appreciated that happens to good people and we don't have a social safety net.
Experience showed me you can make the right choices and still get fucked. I just wish there was a way to teach that lesson that's a little less uh painful.
I think issues are too complicated for uneducated voters to understand when lectured to. People can learn, but many often only in hindsight when they experience something first hand. The educated/uneducated divide sheds light on this so obviously. Which is why it is so frustrating. Not suggesting being educated makes people smarter, but I think people who pursue education are more accepting of lecture. Obviously.
Democrats have to stop and realize this. It's why there is no debate to be had with many Republicans. They don't think about issues through rational extrapolation and curiosity. Everything is an emotional response to the now. They are just wired that way.
That's fair...
they had every right to be frustrated with how things are, but this will not fix anything and they will find out very quickly. its a shame.
The problem with simply being "frustrated" about current material conditions is that frustration is unproductive. You have to channel it into something. If that "something" is fucking fascism, you're an evil person without morals. So while I understand how it happens I cannot absolve people of the crime of voting for an open fascist.
they will find out very quickly
If they were going to realize it, they would've realized it after the first Trump term (and 2020 especially). They'll continue to eat up lies that blame whatever marginalized group they're hating that day.
The shame is that they won't care. These people will just find another scapegoat and punt the ball down the line.
Unfortunately I don't think most of these people care about being judged, especially not by some future people who they'll never meet.
As long as they see benefits in the short term, they're happy, and if the benefits don't materialize or go away too quickly, then it's The Other Side's fault somehow.
Well said.
bitch pls. history gonna get over written with trumps magic fucking marker.
It's gonna be wild to see how different the American history curriculum is inside vs outside of the US in a few years.
Not just history, science, probably math, etc.
They don't want problem solvers or critical thinking skills, they want to create a class of low skilled, low intelligence, baby breeding, obedient working class people.
The owning class will be educated through private institutions.
Please. It is a half eaten crayon.
Remember the time we elected a child rapist twice, pretty cool huh
My unfortunate observation is the majority of people who voted for Trump don't pay any attention to current events and basically get their news via rumor. But if you want the true culprit, it's the 15 million Democrats that voted last time but not this time. The votes for Trump actually went down compared to last time.
Yea that's what they're saying isn't it. 15 million people vanished out of thin air. Interesting
I was thinking about this today, but I never thought I'd be living through, what I think of, as a major world event. This isn't a world War (in name), but the history books WILL likely bring up this period on the States. In what manner they're mentioned, good, bad, or indifferent, is yet to be seen. I imagine grandkids being bewildered when I tell them I lived through this... hopefully.
I certainly do judge any Trump voter as being either terribly naive or a truly bad person. However, broadcasting that message is going to change nothing and only serves as copium for the anti-Trump crowd.
What is going to sway people who have voted for Trump in the past and are not completely lost to the cult of personality is being a champion for radical change that benefits the middle class. The Harris platform evidently did not go far enough to convince enough voters they would see any meaningful change. Nor did the Clinton or Biden platforms, Biden was only lucky enough that his policies were effectively irrelevant in contest with Trump's disastrous mishandling of the COVID-19 pandemic response.
We can't hope for another deadly crisis to get us out of this one.
If champion for radical change that benefits the middle class was that important Trump would not have won.
I would argue that he most definitely is a champion for radical change and that's why he won. "Drain the swamp", "Dictator on day one", " He says it like it is" are all things that deviate dramatically from the status quo of political etiquette. Trump is willing to break political norms to get what he wants and evidently voters think his interests align with their own.
Obviously, this isn't the kind of radical change you or I are hoping for but it certainly is radical. Meanwhile, the Dems are playing it safe in an attempt to appeal broadly and not upset too many people. And we've seen for the last decade that gets us at best legislation which has been gutted to the point where it does effectively nothing for the majority of Americans.
What about the lack of turnout for KH? Am I reading the results wrong ? Was there not massive amounts on non voters? As much as I hate republicans the fence setters an uninformed have fucked us all outside the US
John Oliver's segment on Palestinians really cemented it for me: if your family was killed by a missile sold to them by Biden, it's really difficult to support his successor.
Sure you may not want the orange turd either.
But imagine the heartache of voting for the person related to the one who is responsible for the death of your family.
I know I can't. And a part of me feels for them.
What upset me the most is that Harris used Hilary's election plan verbatim. No one stopped to tell Harris that Clinton lost.
Sanders warned her that if she wants a good turn out, she needs to have a plan for the working class.
Instead she wasted weeks trying to get Republican endorsements instead of trying to shore up her base.
We've already been through this. It's so very tiring. I'm over it. If you're a trump supporter, then fuck you. That's all. Goodbye.
I get how you feel, and I desperately want to feel the same way. But we aren't going to win people over back to the rational side with this attitude. It just feeds into the tribalism and makes the problem worse.
We need to empathize with the other side, which means start by listening to their concerns, and then the moment they feel listened too, we have to completely repudiate the awful stances they believe in, shut down their flawed logic and force them to face facts and reality: one human being to another.
This is brain washing remedy 101. Did we all forget the painfull lessons we learned through the first Trump Presidency? I feel like we have all collectively forgotten that period in time.
You know what they call someone who votes for a fascist? A fascist.
"I don't judge you for your political party" hurrr fucking durr from a tiny mind trying to sound intelligent
The Fucking Republicans have been threatening and working towards ripping away protects from Brown people since The Southern Strategy in 1964, Andrea Junker trying to be cute, going high, and ridiculously trying to split this hair is insulting to the decades of fighting Democrats had to wage to keep Roe, and Voting Rights as long as they did while the Fucking Republicans tried every Congress under every President to strip them away
If you vote Fucking Republican, you are a Fucking Racist, and I blame you squarely for both who you vote for, and what political fucking party you belong to
"I don't judge you ...." fuck off I need a shower
tfw you read the first sentence but don't make it to the second ;(
Ironically i had the same urge reading the first sentence of their comment. After reading the whole thing, I feel kind of dumb hoping to find redemption by the end of it.
Surely hating everyone in America isn’t the answer
Just goes to show that the average person is indeed
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