this post was submitted on 18 Dec 2024
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Summary

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy asserted that no world leader has the right to negotiate with Russian President Vladimir Putin on behalf of Ukraine.

Speaking to Le Parisien readers, Zelenskyy emphasized that Ukraine alone determines its future and any dialogue with Russia must follow a peace plan based on strength and international support.

He warned against negotiating without clear guarantees of security, highlighting the risks of Putin resuming aggression after a ceasefire.

Zelenskyy called for a strategy ensuring Ukraine's long-term stability and security, beyond NATO or EU membership timelines.

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[–] tired_n_bored@lemmy.world 30 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (2 children)

I am so sad by how Ukraine has been handled.

The West should have been an overwhelming power against Russian imperialism. Ukraine should have been given everything from the beginning, no strings attached, with no self-imposed red lines.

They will swallow another democracy in 10-20 years and the cycle repeats.

[–] Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 5 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Turns out neither the west or russia gives a shit about Ukraine.

[–] DicJacobus@lemmy.world 3 points 4 hours ago

they'll give a shit once all other options have been exhausted, and people realize the next step is actual shooting war, with the bombs falling on Warsaw, Helsinki, Berlin, etc. When they realize they're on their last legs before the big one, then they'll take it seriously.

America is a write off, Regulatory captured by the Russian Federation / Russian Mob, Same thing At the very least until 2026 midterms. Europe is still in denial that its time to switch from butter, to guns. Literally

[–] caboose2006@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 hours ago

Maybe no civilian targets. But other than that totally agree. We should have put lend lease circa 1940s to shame

[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 82 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (1 children)

This is arguably the whole point of the war.

[–] azertyfun@sh.itjust.works 7 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

For Ukraine yes, but as far as Ukraine's allies go? Only in principle. In reality we help Ukraine because it fucks up Russia, but we don't give Ukraine the support it really needs or asks for because of [insert litany of excuses for years of delay on new weapons systems].

Proxy wars are nasty business, and Ukraine has precious little say in any of the macro decisions. Russia and Russia's ennemies collectively hold all the negociation leverage.
Zelenskyy's only hope is that domestic pressure will force the West to make a genuine effort at preserving as much of Ukraine's sovereignty as possible, hence this media intervention.

And he's right to be worried, because the situation in Palestine shows, again, that most Western governments only stick to their stated principles when it's politically convenient and shrug at literal genocide when it's not. And the Russian propaganda machine is going to work overtime to make us think that any Russian concession to Ukraine would be against European interests.

[–] Madison420@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago

I think it's worse than that. I think the building red tape was intentional to drag out the war as long as possible so Russia as always will continue to dump resources into it until it bankrupts them both militarily and economically.

[–] DandomRude@lemmy.world 76 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (4 children)

Unfortunately, Trump will do exactly that regardless.

[–] mycall@lemmy.world 3 points 4 hours ago

and by proxy, the majority voters who support him.

[–] DicJacobus@lemmy.world 31 points 9 hours ago (5 children)

America can tell Russia Ukraine formally surrenders, and that the moon is made of cheese, it isnt going to stop anyone from fighting to protect themselves.

The fact that even western countries seem to think that there can be negotiations about the fate of Ukraine and its people, without the Ukrainian voice present, is laughable and directley supports Putin and the Russian Mafia's fantasy-narrative.

[–] Bamboodpanda@lemmy.world 3 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

If America and NATO pull back support, Putin will just say "fuck it" and take all of Ukraine and then do whatever he wants. Putin wants every territory that used to be Russia.

[–] DicJacobus@lemmy.world 8 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (1 children)

even if Nato tucks its tails between its legs and runs away from a winnable confrontation, Russia isn't taking the whole country, they don't have the manpower to run an occupation on a territory the size of Texas, with one of the most heavily armed and battle hardened populations on earth.

Russia already signed away any hope of an occupation that didn't fight them tooth and nail to the death, when they decided to massacre the villages of Bucha , Irpin, and Konotop. The world saw Russia for what it was then, That event "steeled" the resistance. I'm not trying to use hyperbole or sensationalism here, I'm stating that flat out, the Ukrainian people saw that the Russians will murder every single person who doesn't submit, and they've only continued that savage barbarism ever since. Bombing and Murdering people into submission NEVER works. It only gives them a reason to fight.

they weren't equipped to do an occupation in 2022. they sure as shit are less equipped to do so now. It would be one of the bloodiest insurgencies in history. The Taliban didn't have Leopards, Javelins, and HIMARs rockets they could put into hiding.

[–] ameancow@lemmy.world 2 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (1 children)

They have no intention of occupation. They will raze every city to the ground to control the pipes and food. They just want the pipes and food, and people who don't allow that are just going to be ground up like so much meat.

[–] DicJacobus@lemmy.world 3 points 4 hours ago

they dont have the resources for that, either.

[–] ameancow@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago

Putin wants every territory that used to be Russia.

And then when he gets them all, he will want every territory that's near Russia.

And people will be like "Oh no, why didn't anyone DO something when we could?"

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[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 44 points 10 hours ago (5 children)

Probably already has.

Given the Russian pushes since Trump won the election, I'm guessing the deal is "stop fighting (for a bit), but any land you're currently on is yours to keep".

This obviously will not apply to the bits of Russia currently under Ukrainian control.

Europe needs to up it's munitions manufacture. Can't rely on the US for that shit any more. They've gone mad.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 16 points 9 hours ago

Yep the Trump deal is currently no NATO and full handover of the two provinces plus anything Russia holds. It is absolutely ridiculous.

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[–] horse_battery_staple@lemmy.world 298 points 15 hours ago (10 children)

It's fucking ridiculous he has to say it out loud

[–] ZK686@lemmy.world -4 points 3 hours ago

Yet, he expects the US to just keep cutting those checks, right?

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