[-] robinn@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago

Exactly what happened here

User 1: It’s almost as if Chinese Imperialism, genocide and ethnic cleansing is still bad even if the West built its powerbase on Imperialism.

User 2: How many colonies does China have? How many countries has it invaded? How many wars has waged?

Fascists like you and followers of the capitalist death cult can only say this: Tibet, because they drove the feudal lords and dalai lama paedophiles; Taiwan, because the bourgeois dictatorship claimed that land as theirs, as if it isn’t historically all one China, a similar story with Malvinas, I guess you also think they belong to the British; Hong Kong, which was a British colony but for some twisted reason you think they should be it’s own thing, because again it historically has not belong to China; the Uyghur thing, which even Western sources deny and/or doubt of its veracity and which was propelled by a right-wing organisation pro US imperialism; and delirious ideas about China being “imperialist” in Africa or South America because it trades with them and builds infrastructure, instead of providing bogus “financial aids” which then end up in the hands of US puppets like you did in Argentina with IMF funds. So basically all of the “imperialism” you claim is China trying to recover its historical territories lost in the process of the proletarian revolution.

Meanwhile, I don’t see any of the likes of you denouncing the plethora of colonies Europe and the US has been having and continue having for centuries. Why are you no so openly in favour of a Hawai’ian independence movement but you are so fervently obsessed with China? I know why, because you have fascists freudian slips and you can’t even realise about it yourself, since you live surrounded by people who justify themselves, and you have never interacted with a person from the Global South that’s not a fascist. By the way, the things I’m telling you, this is not “tankie” stuff, I have Peronists friends, Trotskyists friends, and all over the spectrum in Argentina, and they all know what you people say is complete and utter disgusting, the thought that everyone agrees with this kind of thought is something only maintained in first world imperialist countries. Don’t fool yourself.

User 2: I'm not talking with someone who defends genocide

User 3: Yeah, don’t bother. Tankies are red fascists.

User 2: Yup, tankies are fascists under a new name.

[-] robinn@hexbear.net 2 points 1 year ago

Okay found out what Lemmy is and I hate it. Like wtf is this.

Hey, tankies, decent countries don’t have to violently suppress their populations and then lie about it. Oh, and socialism is worker ownership of the means of production, not whatever the fuck they’re doing in China. (inb4 people assuming I must support the US since I hate China)

The socialism understander has logged on. Wouldn't even know what to reply to this since it's literally nothing.

[-] robinn@hexbear.net 0 points 1 year ago

No clue what Lemmy is but I'll try to get what you're asking for.

I made a carrd on the Uyghur genocide available [here]. It has the U.S. Army colonel clip you talked ab.

For Tiananmen Square, [this] is a Hong Kong news report of the evacuation. You have the CIA cable, that's a good source. Here's a general article.

Hou Dejian, a Taiwanese national and one of the leaders of the Tiananmen protests, saying he was in the square all night and saw no one killed

*The CBS testimony says that the CPC denies the casualties in outer areas. This is incorrect, the mayor of Beijing had stated in a public report that around 200 people died including PLA soldiers.

“According to the information we have so far gathered, more than 3,000 civilians were wounded and over 200, including 36 college students, died during the riot.” (p. 47).

Xitong, Chen. Report on Checking the Turmoil and Quelling the Counter-Revolutionary Rebellion. New Star Publishers, 1989.

Mentions in State-Owned Media In China [refuting the "censor" narrative; all accessed through Baidu]:

China.org.cn: China Rejects US Statement on 6-4 Incident

China Daily: Tiananmen Massacre a Myth

China Daily: What's Wrong With Our Liberal Studies Courses?

CPC News: Centennial Events of the Communist Party of China

People's Daily: Memorabilia of the Communist Party of China 1989

Publications the year of the event (first is relatively easy to find, second isn't):

Xitong, Chen. Report on Checking the Turmoil and Quelling the Counter-Revolutionary Rebellion. Beijing: New Star Publishers, 1989.

The Beijing Riot: A Photo Record. Beijing: New Star Publishers, 1989.

[-] robinn@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago

Umm guys the proletariat kinda bankrolls the bourgeoisie so it's really their fault.

[-] robinn@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I swear to god if they bring up criminal record or some other bullshit that doesn't pertain to this again I will go to the NYT headquarters and ********************************************************. The murderer didn't know he WAS (he got off the list before the murder jesus christ) on the "poor people who deserve to die" list. The people on the train said Neely never physically harmed or threatened to physically harm anyone, end of story.

"We're not justifying the murder" YES YOU ARE, THE FOCUS SHOULD NOT BE ON THIS

[-] robinn@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

People watched it and won't admit it.

0

Part I

Yeah she quotes the CIA and state department (why would they lie?), and doesn't question it at all, which flies in the face of her "journalistic process" nonsense at the end.

"I remember my first, brief meeting with Seymour Hersh in Beirut in 2009. I was based there for the BBC..."

Of course! The British government propaganda station only reports fair and true information! Let us now critique his relations to Assad and gloss over this...

"But by the time the Syrian civil war sent shockwaves through the Middle East, Hersh’s relationship with the Assads seemed to affect his journalism. In Syria’s ugly, bloody civil war, he took the dictator’s side, claiming — against all existing evidence — that it was the rebels and not the regime who used sarin gas in chemical attacks. Unlike Hersh’s investigations into America’s chemical warfare in the 1960s, his Syria reporting seemed to be based on his assumption that the U.S. government lies, rather than witnesses or evidence"

The U.S. government does lie. Consistently. And where is her skepticism when it came to uncritically quoting the state department earlier (don't worry, she questions Russia's acceptance of the theory)? It has returned, it seems, only to provide no evidence for her point but merely suggest that the evidence exists.

"This is how disinfo 101 works... A piece is published, it triggers a reaction. Media then reports on the reaction, further extending the lifespan of that original piece.”

???

Part II

Let's see how much "disinfo" we can find in another article on this site:

"Pearls, rhino horns and arsenic: Covid-hit North Koreans advised to turn to traditional medicine"

"... guards were issued shoot-to-kill orders along the hermit country’s border with China, while state media warned people that everything from snow, to birds, to trash in the ocean could carry COVID. Citizens were ordered inside on numerous occasions, supposedly to shelter from 'dust storms from China' that the government feared could carry the virus."

Shoot to kill orders? This is shocking... surely the link will follow to some authoritative source on the matter (it's another one of her articles). And in this article, she just claims the same thing without any citation. Is this not how disinformation actually works? There's no link to state media on the warning of snow carrying COVID, but there is a link for their claim that state media suggested people stay inside because of dust storms. This links to a BBC article which states:

"Yellow dust refers to sand from Mongolian and Chinese deserts that blows into North and South Korea at certain times of the year. It is intermingled with toxic dust that for years has raised health concerns in both countries."

So they have legitimate concerns.

"North Korea’s main state-run outlet, Rodong Sinmun, has published official treatment advice for the virus. It advises people to take antibiotics, which are not effective in fighting the virus, as they treat bacterial infections. The newspaper also recommended dairy products and folk remedies like honeysuckle flowers and willow tree leaves. It also called for a medicine called angunguhwanghwan, a traditional North Korean concoction that contains pearls, rhino horn and gold leaf, as well as dangerous levels of mercury, lead and arsenic"

Again, quite shocking. No link is given to Rodong Sinmun but instead to NK News. The article contains no citations for its quotes from state media.

"North Korea has a track record of developing scientifically unproven treatments, such as injections made from ginseng which it claimed could cure AIDS. Pushing bogus cures is a family trait in hermetic, isolated states"

This claim is cited from an NPR article. NPR is a U.S. government affiliated news service, but we will see what they have to say:

"The World Health Organization says there's no known cure or vaccine for MERS, but state-run media in Pyongyang reports a wonder drug called Kumdang-2 will do the trick. The report makes no mention of whether Pyongyang is going to offer this miracle compound to its neighbor to the south. Or as the news agency puts it: 'the Korean puppet authorities' in Seoul. Note to readers: The next few paragraphs require us to use the word 'allegedly' more than a few times"

That note is included in the original article (go check). Why? Because they don't actually have any direct examples of state media suggesting this. (Note: there is no link for the "Pyongyang state-run media report" in the paragraph). They will say this is because it is difficult to access information on the DPRK, except both Rodong Sinmun and KCNA are publicly accessible in multiple languages online. Some articles aren't automatically translated into English, but this doesn't require an anonymous source to work around.

"While the government has announced that the military will be used to deliver supplies to people in the most need, Dr. Lim tells me the allocation of these scarce resources will likely be based on loyalty to the party — meaning that many North Koreans are likely to resort to alternative treatments"

No need to cite the government announcement, journalism is hard.

Part III

Now I found another report of Natalia's (author of the first article) that made me really unwell. It's titled: "A boom in 3D-printed guns, North Korean cat hunters and China versus Pfizer" seen here. The issue I'll be discussing is the middle item "North Korean cat hunters." Natalie writes:

"North Koreans along the country’s border have been ordered to kill stray cats, because they could 'bring the virus from China'"

This is deeply disturbing. The order is cited from Daily NK (which is funded by the NED, which itself is funded annually by congress). The article cites an anonymous source for the claim.

It seems Natalia is by far a more experienced purveyor of misinformation than anyone else. Far more reliant on trusting government sources at their word, far more interested in fabricating details to suit her agenda, etc.

[-] robinn@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

For the GDR, see:

  1. "What You Should Know About the Wall"
  2. "The Berlin Wall: Another Cold War Myth" by William Blum (author of Killing Hope)

For the Soviet Union, this is a thing you hear about many countries (Cuba and the DPRK for example). Since it's not accompanied by any data, you can simply say that people also immigrated to the USSR (or wherever else). This is equally valid. They don't know how many people immigrated to and from the Soviet Union, but they have an image cultivated by years of propaganda: so ask them. They'll be forced to tell you that they don't know. Then you will be done with it.

[-] robinn@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

I agree that it would obviously be preferable to use prestigious sources with good web design and well-known authors. Unfortunately my resources are limited. Feel free to suggest another article and I'll consider adding it (perhaps I could make a "mainstream news" section?).

[-] robinn@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Grayzone is definitely very iffy but these specific posts are good. I verified each of the blog posts as well. The issue isn't "trust", if I cited a blog as saying something and they didn't prove their point then it would be a bad citation. The only time I cited blog posts was for analysis of establishment news, and critique them if you like but don't just go "they're not valid news sources", because that isn't the issue and nothing is claimed as a revelation or without proof. If the issue is with sharing this to other people, then you should first establish what the difference is between news and analysis.

Note: That AP article is far too entrenched in propaganda to be shared as a source. You'd have much more trouble with optics in that case.

5
Xinjiang Masterpost (hexbear.net)
submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by robinn@hexbear.net to c/sino@hexbear.net

Xinjiang and Human Rights

The Xinjiang Atrocity Propaganda Blitz

Xinjiang: A Report and Resource Compilation

Thread on Xinjiang

Breaking down the BBC’s visit to Hotan, Xinjiang

Post actually going over a BBC report from within one of these centers

The Case of the Keriya Aitika Mosque

Thread on the UN Xinjiang Report

Xinjiang Police Files (XPF) Debunk

Note: The quote from the NYT Article: “absolutely no mercy” was from a 2014 speech on the terror attacks, specifically was referring to the perpetrators of the terror attacks, and did not scapegoat Uyghurs to any extent (what a wonder a three word quote could be taken out of context!) in addition, the phrase “organs of dictatorship” from that speech refers to the proletarian class dictatorship

Diplomatic Visit to Xinjiang by Representatives of Islamic Nations (2022)

Diplomatic Visit to Xinjiang by Representatives of Islamic Nations (2023)

Estimations of 1 million detainees (and onwards):

  1. 2018 UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination report authored by the NGO (Network of) Chinese Human Rights Defenders [which has received NED funding]

The report (which concludes 1.3-2 million detainees) was based on interviews with only 8 Uyghur individuals, then extrapolated to form percent estimates on the population of detainees in the XUAR

Uyghur 'unrest' was a CIA narrative planned to destabilize China, top US army Chief admits. 2018

  1. Adrian Zenz, member of the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation

Adrian Zenz’s deliberate fabrications regarding sterilization statistics [“new IUD”]

[On “net IUD” (~80% as misleading figure)]

CGTN Documentaries: (the first one is better)

Fighting terrorism in Xinjiang

The black hand — ETIM and terrorism in Xinjiang

White Papers:

The Fight Against Terrorism and Extremism and Human Rights Protection in Xinjiang

Human Rights in Xinjiang - Development and Progress

Cultural Protection and Development in Xinjiang

Vocational Education and Training in Xinjiang

Western Establishment News Reports:

The Independent: More than 35 countries defend China over mass detention of Uighur Muslims in UN letter

Reuters: Diplomatic Visits to Xinjiang by Representatives of Islamic Nations

Associated Press: Terror & Tourism: Xinjiang eases its grip, but fear remains (provided by @stinky)

Foreign Policy: State Department Lawyers Concluded Insufficient Evidence to Prove Genocide in China

[-] robinn@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

you're not funny answer my damn question

0
submitted 2 years ago by robinn@hexbear.net to c/askchapo@hexbear.net

help fr

robinn

joined 2 years ago