[-] weshallovercum@hexbear.net 1 points 3 years ago

the eye-talians have gone too far smh

[-] weshallovercum@hexbear.net 1 points 3 years ago

The kulaks posed immediate physical danger of starving the Soviet people from their lack of cooperation. The landlords were actively suppressing the peasants.

Who makes said rules?

The rules come from the constitution voted upon by the people.

Who carries out the trial? Are they members of a hierarchical state with more power than the individual on trial? If so imo that is authoritarian

Tell me how would an anarchist society enforce laws then? And how would an anarchist society ensure every individual would have equal power?

[-] weshallovercum@hexbear.net 1 points 3 years ago

As it is already been said in this thread self defence is not authoritarian.

Glad you agree that the gulaging of kulaks or the extermination of landlords is not authoritarian.

anti clerical violence in anarchistic Catalonia for example is not generally considered authoritarian because they were spontaneous acts undertaken on the agency of the perpetrators rather than being systematically carried out by a hierarchical organisation

So your violence is good because its done in a supposedly spontaneous manner, but violence by MLs is bad because it is more organized? Murdering people without a trial, without following any pre-defined rules(a.k.a no rule of law) is not authoritarian. But executing people after a trial, in accordance with rule of law is authoritarian?

[-] weshallovercum@hexbear.net 1 points 3 years ago

Well, actually that's the point of my question. I wanted to show anarchists that authoritarianism implies some kind of moral judgement where some actions are authoritarian and some aren't. And since morals are inherently subjective, that means authoritarianism itself is a subjective term.

[-] weshallovercum@hexbear.net 1 points 3 years ago

So now the question becomes, why is it OK for anarchists to use authoritarian methods to deal with reactionaries? Why was it OK for the Catalonian anarchists to execute priests, implement discipline in the factories etc? I don't disagree with what the Catalonian anarchists did, but it strikes strange that no one sees it as example of authoritarianism. Whenever anarchists were in messy situations, they used violence and subjugation as much as MLs do.

[-] weshallovercum@hexbear.net 2 points 3 years ago

All religions are equally unvalid.

[-] weshallovercum@hexbear.net 1 points 4 years ago

When someone makes a bullshit idealist argument you respond with a bullshit idealist argument, because they can neither be proved or disproved anyway. Like tell them that communism is human nature because families existed before capitalism and families share their resources or some other nonsensical argument like that. Basically beat them with their own idealism until they have to resort to using materialism

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Like allowing multiple political parties, full freedom of speech and assembly, abolishing the police, ownership of weapons, direct democracy etc.

The common justification is that they were in a dire situation where allowing too much freedom would allow counterrevolutionaries and foreign imperialists to sabotage and destroy them. I find this unconvincing, to what extent is security better than freedom? To what extent can the current leadership be trusted to "protect the revolution" than possible others better suited who couldnt take power?

Even then, why did the Soviet Union and other communist countries not democratize after WW2 when they arguably established sovereignty with their nuclear weapons?

Just as the capitalist ruling class preferred fascism to losing their power to communists, it seems the Marxist-Leninist rulers preferred capitalism to a more democratic form of socialism.

We see this happen now in Cuba, the last bastion of Marxism-Leninism, where the ruling class has been gradually introducing privatization and market reforms rather than allowing things like open elections, freedom of speech etc. Under capitalism, they can still rule.

weshallovercum

joined 4 years ago