It's a situation that I have been expecting for a while, but I wasn't fully ready to accept it. Specifically it's one of my LGBTQ friends who honestly believes in the democrats will protect them and their partner. I have tried to make the point that both parties are eroding any sort of civility towards all marginalized groups, but fear seems to drive them more than logical observations. They make the excuse that change doesn't happen over night and that the left continues to grow and will have meaningful affects down the road. I fundamentally just don't agree with that idea and vocalize it regularly. More and more it is ending up in a circular argument where I am painted as unrealistic and my rhetoric (leftist rhetoric) is doing more harm than good because it promotes distrust in the only system we have to work with. I try to tell them it's kind of the whole point. We gotta start somewhere if we want to see a better, more representative system, but they are so hung up on the immediate future while simultaneously saying that my idealistic feelings are shortsighted and I cant expect change in the immediate future... The double-talk is wild, I know.
I am trying my hardest to stop from engaging at this point because on the most basic level we agree on a lot of stuff, but they are just way to wrapped up in the fear mongering of the democratic party. They know that the two party system is broken, they know that something drastic needs to change, but they also think that they are powerless to do anything except choose the lesser evil. It pains me because I am watching them do the same shit past generations have done, where they give up on their ideals for the sake of preserving the current status quo that they benefit from. I am legitimately watching them imply "fuck you, got mine" under the guise of civic duty and I hate it. I want nothing more than to be able to finally say "I told you so" without being a smug asshole about it and ruining our friendship.
Thanks for reading my rant. It's probably a bit disjointed, but the frustration is boiling over and I needed to vent to the only group of people that seems to understand the hopelessness of being a disenfranchised leftist.
Kamala is happily enabling a genocide and wants the American armed forces to be "the most lethal" in the world.
I heard this before 2012. And before 2016. And before 2020. I no longer buy the argument.
We here at hexbear can't downvote. You probably will get/have gotten some downvotes, but they haven't been from hexbear.
I'm sick of arguing with people about electoral politics, so let me just ignore most of your response and address only the end, because maybe I can make a positive difference to your worldview there.
The issue with the phrase "man up" is not only that it implies your interlocutor is a certain gender. That's a bit of an issue, sure, because assuming men are the default humans is pretty misogynist. However, the real misogyny of the phrase is much more insidious than just assuming everyone is a man. What the phrase "man up" does is inextricably tie strength of character to manhood and masculinity. And that's misogynist tripe. Womanhood and femininity have as much strength inherent in them as manhood and masculinity. Men are not morally stronger than women, so exhorting someone to moral strength by telling them to be more like a man is full on misogyny. Yes, it's the type that's so normalized in our culture that you can be forgiven for not seeing it, especially if you yourself are a man (which you may or may not be, I don't know). But please, excise the phrase "man up" from your vocabulary.
Hey, I'm sorry, but I need to hammer this in, because brainworms burrow deep and I'd like to make sure you understand yours. The issue isn't simply that you implied something you didn't mean to imply, that's true so far as it goes, but the more important part is what you implied. That's the problem. If you take away from this experience "I need to write more carefully on the internet so people don't read anything into what I've written" that's an ok lesson, but it isn't the one I'm hopeful you'll learn. My hope is that you'll come away with something more like "wow, I seem to have some internal feeling that men are morally stronger than women, I wonder where that came from and how I can go about unlearning this feeling."
I want you to deprogram the underlying misogyny, not just learn to disguise it better, you know? Still, thanks for admitting fault, that's hard to do on the internet.
I prefer the reality where liberals like you grow a spine and understand that genocide is a red line that you can never excuse without selling your soul. The people who Biden is killing are real people with experiences, emotion, families, internal lives, dreams, and soul. They aren't NPCs or numbers on a screen to be weighed against in some demented cost benefit analysis. To ignore their plight is to ignore your humanity. The hypothetical continuation of the genocide does not excuse your support for the current actually existing genocide.
Have you considered that Kamala's worthless neo liberal economic policy, racist border policy, and hawkish right wing foreign policy will ensure fascism? A vote for for Kamala is a vote for 4 years of stagnant decline and imperial embarrassment that brought about trump in the first place, ripe for a competent fascist to step in
Libs consider this bravery
People have been making your argument for decades. Every single fucking election it's widely claimed we're on the "tipping point", people everywhere said it last time with Trump, and what did he do when he got into power? Largely just continued the status quo of making everything gradually worse.
If anyone thinks voting remotely matters and they want change, they should vote third party. But as always, I don't think voting will change anything no matter what.
Take half the fucking effort you put into this "Vote for genociders or get fascism" shit and put it into organising or direct action.
Trump did bad things. So have the Dems. And sincerely describing someone who actively supports genocide as "not perfect" just shows what a disingenuous lib you are. Your version of "harm reduction" has, for decades, done nothing but emphasize and prolong the harm.
I don't live in the US either. I just care about people's wellbeing in general. You should recognise that literally wherever on the planet you live, that organising and doing direct action would be more productive than telling people anywhere that voting matters. What a fucking waste of political energy.
That's what they said the last time and the time before that and that and that and that and that and that. There's alwys something that makes it so we just have to accept this rotten dog of a candidate. If the rule you followed has brought you to this, of what use was the rule?
Furthermore whenever the dems do win, what is said of the left? "Oh turns out we didn't need them at all!" What happens when they lose? Then it is the fault of the left. We were on the tipping point last time as well and the dems have had 4 years to do something about it, you failed. Why should we vote for someone who will do nothing to take us back from the alleged brink we're at?
The country was on the precipice of destruction last election and the one before that and so on. The dems have had decades to pull us back from the alleged brink. They have now had 4 years in power, yet here we are once again. You failed. The dems are looking to lose to Donald Trump, yet somehow we failed? The dems lost a massive lead to Donald Trump, you failed. If you are a realist, then accept reality.
Why should people vote for a party that constantly cries wolf, yet never does anything about the wolf apart from copying the wolfs' policies, working with the wolf, calling for bipartisanship with the wolf party, bragging about how much more wolf-like they are than the wolf party and so on?
There's plenty of people voting third party or voting uncommited or abstaining from voting. Seems to me it has worked out completely well. I can imagine it's hard to understand when you are only ever thinking about the current election and never what happened in the past or what the future brings, but most things aren't done in a few years. I'm honestly impressed with how these movements are developing, considering the amount of ratfucking they've been subjected to.
You really do not understand politics, do you?
Did you think you had something here? "Nobody is perfect" is the dems ole-faithful. You can't go pobodys nerfect about genocide.
Communists are liberals' enemies why would we help you?
Check
Check
I can’t believe you just came in here and roleplayed the exact lib mentality that the thread has been about…
Libs really don’t have any self awareness.
For what it’s worth, Hexbear doesn’t have downvotes, so peddle your Reddit tripes somewhere else please. Also, you do care otherwise you wouldn’t mention it.
Eat shit
Suuuure
Why would I, a red fascist hate this?
This country is already a fascist state; that you can't extrapolate that when most of your non-grocery goods that don't get imported are made by prison slave labor, that you can't extrapolate when the police lynch over a thousand non-whites a year, that you can't extrapolate that from segregation still reified through redlining 'undesirable consumers' into ghettos all over the country, tells me that you either are a settler, or will gleefully run defense for them from your likely vassal-assed other country.
Which what you mean to say, is that the settler half of Amerika will finally have to live under the same conditions my people do. Maybe you'll grow a sense of empathy from it. Long shooting, I know; but a subject-of-empire can hope.
The morals in questions are understanding that our duty to fall in line and vote for the blue fascist is superseded by hundreds of thousands of innocents being incinerated by the fires stoked in American and German weapon factories. Morals are more important than tactically and short sightedly acting in unabashed self interest you spineless ghoul.
Sorry we just don't like politicians who enable genocide
Is being an apologist for a candidate that supports an active genocide
Comment gets removed
"The mods are removing comments that go against their morals!"
Your attack ad of a comment was trash anyway they did you a favor