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Hexbear Proposals chapo.chat matrix room.
This will be a place for site proposals and discussion before implementation on the site.
Every proposal will also be mirrored into a pinned post on the hexbear community.
Any other ideas for helping to integrate the two spaces are welcome to be commented here or messaged to me directly.
Within Hexbear Proposals you can see the history of all site proposals and react to them, indicating a vote for or against a proposal.
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All top level messages within the channel must be a Proposals (idea for changing the site), Feedback (regarding non-technical aspects of the site, for technical please use https://hexbear.net/c/feedback), or Appeals (regarding admin/moderator actions).
Discussion regarding these will be within nested threads under the post.
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As I said last time this all came up I have no problem with people spending donated money on whatever they want as long as they didn't lie to get it.
I don't care if people spend it on drugs or anything else, as long as they didn't say it was for something else.
Saying you need money for basic survival items, getting the money and then turning around and spending it on drugs is shitty, especially when it's surrounded by posts of other people also saying rhe need survival necessities.
I don't think I'm the only one who, given the option to donate limited resources to people starving in Gaza or facing eviction or having that same money go to somebody buying gard drugs, I'd rather it be used on the thing that is going to actually improve the situation.
Especially if you're then going to go on to say that other people are making outside observers less likely to donate.
That's before you get into the history of bragging about scamming people and calling people slurs when you get called on it.
You know what, I will chime in here too. I was facing homelessness and begged for cash on mutualaid and I watched as someone asked for money for a vehicle and received $4,000. Then they bought drugs with it.
$4,000 is 8 months rent for me. I went homeless.
I won't otherwise make value judgements on anyone involved, but I don't think you're shitty for calling it out.
Yea i normally wouldn't have said anything if that exact person wasn't the one complaining about other people dping that now.
what the fuck. $4,000? WHAT THE FUCK THAT COULDVE DONE SO MUCH GOOD.
Please tell me that at least that user was banned
Nah, still a regular here.
Fuck off
Just answering the question. I don't think they should be penalized for having needs.
Okay, sorry for telling you to fuck off, I thought you were with the others trying to keep these old things going, that really need to be let go and to stop being reactionary.
Hopefully. This is reactionary liberal bullshit. What's next, you gonna get mad someone on Mutal Aid has a smartphone?
Yeah fair. No investigation, no right to speak. I took that comment stating they asked for the money for a car then spent it all on drugs at face value and didn't investigate further. Now that I've seen the real story my comments are awful
Even if a person spent it all on drugs, who cares? Why are you joining the War on Drugs on the side of feds?
That's not what I said. The comment I was replying to (incorrectly) stated they had lied by requesting the money for car repairs then spent it on drugs.
My issue was with the lie itself (that didn't actually happen).
Shut the fuck up. She did not scam 4000$ If you're going to misrepresent the situation, how about you fuck off? You're the one being disgusting. I was the one who gave her 4,000$ and maybe read what I said here. https://hexbear.net/comment/6174872
Still a regular in mutual aid
Amazing
What's more is we aren't even allowed to talk about it but that user can be defensive out of nowhere and call names.
Plenty of people talking about this here, how about take your shit snide comments elsewhere?
Where should I take it?
Up your asshole because none of this shit is your business to begin with.
Oooohhhhhhh ok. I'm gonna block you now
I'm so hurt! How about you go reflect on your own shit
at least I don't have my head so far up my ass I don't take my own shit for gospel
I did not blow it all on drugs. Hell, I spent at least a quarter of that, in other words a whole entire rack, on other people in need. In other words, giving it away to my homeless friends. I sent one friend alone $400. I sent $200 to another.
I’m not saying I didn’t buy drugs with it. But it was not even a quarter of that $4K.
You know what I did blow it on? DoorDash. I spent maybe $1,000 on DoorDash.
I’m ashamed of how I squandered that money either way and I’ve learned from my mistakes but I know nobody fucking cares so why the fuck should I bother.
Well, I'm sorry if I misrepresented the situation. It just really sucked to watch play out. I'm glad to hear you learned something from it and I hope you're getting by okay.
I was totally expecting you to double down and insist that I’m lying, etc., because that’s what I’ve come to expect in arguments like this one. Thank you.
That is disturbing to read, I'm sorry you went through that and I hope you're at least okay now.
I feel like there could be more emphasis on a hierarchy of needs in this comm but idk how to implement that without opening the cans of worms that come from basically means testing. That would go against the purpose of the comm. But maybe at least some feedback system that allows people who want to donate to understand whose requests are being ignored or whose requests still need to be fulfilled.
I think the answer that sums up this whole chain is that it is necessary to set boundaries with people, even if the person is having a rough go. We're kind of over-correcting the other way because everyone is scared to be paternalistic or patronizing or enforcing capitalist work ethic. Under communism we're still going to have set boundaries with each other. It's just part of human interaction.
You’re assuming something and presenting it as fact.
I think from the perspective of competing needs the more likely issue is that some people get more because they are more popular / appealing than others which is another form of market logic of its own. I think that's a fair criticism, but it's still a criticism of those who choose the allocation of resources rather than a criticism of those who need them.
My point is that being the arbiter of competing needs on a person to person basis is morally fraught (and typically on some level dishonest) which is why real mutual aid is a communal and social function rather than a peer-to-peer market function. Also that enforcing a system of account on those who are in need is just opening up a can of worms for petty sectarian moralizing that is going to wind up with harming more people than preventing scenarios like this.
There's also just a lot of unverified, unknowable information to make a call here, and digging thru the post and user histories that started this thread it's incredibly difficult to tell what the truth of the obvious off board drama between the involved users is.
FWIW you shouldn't have gone homeless, that's a failing of society on multiple levels that should be eradicated.
I wasn't taking it that way. I just think that your POV matters, but should be treated different than the POV of someone giving.
I think this is very noble of you.
Yeah I agree with this, the best we can do is caveat emptor.
I just think that adjudicating it before/after the fact or debating whose rules are more moral is pointless and harmful. There's already calls for the user to get banned, from people who likely only read scenario as presented by Adkml which is not productive. I think there are scenarios where the $4k/car/drugs thing could be extremely shitty sure, but I don't have all the information to judge, I don't want the user to provide it, and it's not my place to judge to begin with.
This is a message board, meaning it's already a suboptimal way to distribute aid. At the end of the day this wasn't someone pretending to be in need, they did get a car with the money, this person is still homeless. People should just live and let live.
And then were also donated a car. And then got it impounded within a week because they were intentionally antagonizing the people living in the house they were staying in front of.
Lol no.
You are talking an awful lot about a situation you clearly don't know.
You are 100% correct, and it is 100% none of my business to find out.
Sure, but you also have to be honest with yourself that this is about your ego and wanting to maximize the good that YOU do according to YOUR beliefs. I also doubt that this same calculus applies if the person who might be spending money on drugs is more closely related to you rather than some person on the internet.
This isn't some self evident logical principle, this is a reaction to your own feelings and ideas. Mutual aid is not about purchasing the most "alleviation" or "goodness". You're exhibiting the same form of thinking that calls things like breakfast programs frivolous luxury. The comm is called mutual aid because mutual aid is unconditional. You're attempting to make personal a normative value judgement objective rather than what it is, subjective.
Someone is saying, I have a problem and I need help. You are saying, there's plenty of people with problems in the market so I'm only going to help if I like the way you solve your problem. That's not charity or mutual aid, that's an investment.
No that's total fucking cope lol.
Me saying that I would rather my limited money for charity go to feeding somebody in need rather than someone using it for recreational drugs is not a sign that I have an ego problem.
I'm not saying you have an ego problem. I'm saying charity/mutual aid is a selfless act and being judgemental is not selfless.
You're nowhere near an ego problem. An ego problem is more like you wouldn't donate to charity until you had a 9 figure net worth based on you inventing inventing something like a toothpaste lid and you'd start a small charitable foundation which is just make work job / capitalist training camp for every one of your kids.
I am genuinely not being judgemental I'm just trying to make sure the limited resources do the maximum amount of good.