this post was submitted on 08 Sep 2023
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Edit: Surprised at all the vegans in this thread. I didn't think there were so many of you. I'm glad you care so much about animal rights, that you're willing to forego eating them and using products made from them. If you're not vegan and have moral objections for this, maybe you should look at yourself first and all the animal abuse you sanction by eating animals and using animal products. Did you know dairy cows have to be pregnant to produce milk? They're artificially inseminated throughout most of their lives. I hope everyone complaining about this also complains about ice cream and cheese. Or else they would be hypocrites who just want to blame others but never look at themselves.

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[–] NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world 39 points 1 year ago (9 children)

Am I the only one who thinks it's fucked up to experiment on animals who can't consent to this? We place so much emphasis on people being the most important thing in the world, we forgot that we are part of the ecosystem too.

[–] htrayl@lemmy.world 77 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

This is and will always be small potatoes in terms of the suffering we put relatively intelligent animals through every day.

We would need to slaughter probably 100,000 animals yearly for the US organ demand (at ~50,000 transplants per year and a buffer).

We slaughter 125 MILLION pigs in the US for consumption a year.

Not to mention that "medical grade" pigs will probably be given a golden ticket in terms of care until they are slaughtered, compared to the extremely abysmal environment millions live in today.

If animal welfare is important to you, scientific research is a poor use of advocating resources while we still eat hundreds of pounds of meat yearly. If advocates reduce meat consumption by even a percent or two it would generally greatly outweigh banning animal based research entirely.

[–] NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sure, but the article isn't about the inhumane treatment of our industrial meat production facilities. I'm well aware of them. And I want those gone too.

[–] bobman@unilem.org -5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Good thing you're not consuming or using animal products, then. Or else you'd be a hypocrite.

[–] NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Always with the you can't participate in society and criticize it argument. It's pathetic.

[–] bobman@unilem.org 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean, you can participate in society without eating meat. Lol.

Unless you were talking to someone else?

[–] Sternout@feddit.de -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You can't tell anyone to stop eating meat if you eat meat

Edit: Or else you'd be a hypocrite

[–] bobman@unilem.org -2 points 1 year ago
[–] ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world 40 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Animal testing isn’t ideal but for important medical advances, animal testing is the only way to demonstrate safety before human trials. At some point, you have to value the life of a human more than mice.

And some of the testing is fun. Like when they give them a buzzer to get more drugs. Lab rats definitely consent to more cocaine.

[–] Beefcyclone@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Confirmed, cocaine is lab rat approved.

[–] bobman@unilem.org 27 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I mean, you're probably not the only one who thinks anything.

That said, do you eat meat? If so, the meat and dairy industries systematically do egregious things to millions of animals every day.

[–] prettybunnys@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Dude if I can preorder a whole pig with a replacement set of lungs too ….

Dinner and an upgrade?

[–] Cold_Brew_Enema@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Bacon and breathing

[–] NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world -3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I limit my meat consumption, and I don't drink milk. Not a 100% vegetarian, but it's better than nothing. One of these days I'll decide to be a vegetarian again.

[–] rikudou@lemmings.world 6 points 1 year ago

So, you're eating meat and being all hypocritical about others.

[–] bobman@unilem.org 0 points 1 year ago

Do you eat cheese or other dairy products?

[–] scarabic@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Everyone is rushing in here to say it’s fine because we eat meat too. But I find this whole thing g very revealing of attitudes we usually just don’t think about. We’d never farm organs in human embryos because GASP consent and GASP sanctity of life. But we’ll farm organs cross species, which is surely more difficulty, because we’re so comfortable doing all that to animals.

You can take the perspective that it’s fine because meat. Or you can use this to take a second look at eating meat and suddenly it seems pretty fucked up.

I eat meat. Am not talking down to anyone. I just do actually think about the ethics.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I take the perspective that it's fine because human life is more important and valuable than animal life.

Same reason we should eradicate most mosquitos on the planet to end malaria

[–] scarabic@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That’s not a perspective though, it’s a bald assertion. “It’s fine because we’re important” is like saying “it’s fine because it’s fine,” or more to the point “it’s fine because I say so.”

What makes us important?

A lot of people don’t seem to understand that their logic is circular. Ask someone why they chose the car they did, and half of them will say “well it’s the one I wanted.”

[–] SCB@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Animals are things and humans are people.

You're allowed to devalue your own existence all you want but anyone entertaining the idea that all life is equal is fundamentally stupid in my opinion

[–] scarabic@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You’ve graduated from bald assertions and circular logic to ad hominems.

It’s ironic what a shit job you’re doing of demonstrating our higher functions and supposed superiority.

“HUMAN GOOD! NOT HUMAN BAD.”

Have a great day there, Socrates.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not bad, just not as valuable as a human.

[–] kaj@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

Even if that claim is true, it can still be bad to eat them.

[–] jackoneill@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

It’s just another version of the food chain

It's definitely fucked up. It reminds me of the WKUK breakfast pig sketch.

[–] BarrelAgedBoredom@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, but you see; the animals are useful in a new way so ethics doesn't matter. We'll worry about that in 50 years when we no longer need them to grow new organs for us

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

We’ll worry about that in 50 years when we no longer need them to grow new organs for us

Yes that would be appropriate.

[–] Harrison@ttrpg.network 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I would see a million pigs die before one human.

[–] ivanafterall@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

How many pigs would be too many? What is the precise pig to human exchange rate?

[–] NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That's basically the attitude that is resulting in the 6th mass extinction right now.

[–] FlowVoid@midwest.social 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Pigs are in no danger of extinction.

And wanting to preserve natural ecosystems does not imply wanting to improve the treatment of livestock. Incidentally, the end of meat consumption would most likely lead to the extinction of multiple species of livestock.

[–] Harrison@ttrpg.network 5 points 1 year ago

We brought pigs into existence for the benefit of human conditions, we will take them out of it if and when it becomes necessary.