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I am just wondering how far this will go.
(lemmygrad.ml)
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this post was submitted on 06 Jan 2024
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Palestine
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A community for everything related to Palestine and the occupation currently underway by the occupying force known as Israel.
Anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism. Existence is resistance for Palestinians.
Please refer to Israel as Occupied Palestine, or occupied territories. The IDF is a fascist and ethnonationalist occupying force. Israelis are settlers. We understand however that the imperial narrative (which tries to legitimise Israel) is internalised in the imperial core and slip-ups are naturally expected.
We always take the sides of Palestine and Palestinians and are unapologetic about it. Israel is an occupying power whose "defence force"'s (note the contradiction) sole purpose for existing is to push Palestinians out so they can resettle their rightful land. If you have anything positive to say about Israel we do not care.
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You need only look to what happened to indigenous people in the US to get your answer.
Not even. At least survivors were moved to paltry “reservations” before being tortured and humiliated further.
This more closely resembles the Nazi solution to the “Jewish Question”. A one for one recreation of the destruction and liquidation of the Warsaw Ghetto.
I'm sorry but reservations are literally death camps.
The average life expectancy at pine ridge is 52 for men and 54 for women. They have the highest infant mortality rates and suicide rates in the country. Jus because there are no gas chambers doesn't make it much different.
The entire water supply is contaminated by uranium mines and my friend's grandmother can't even live on her parcel of land because it is right next to a bombing range.
We are doing work to try to change that but the last person that tried is still in prison.
The only difference between the US and Nazi Germany is that the US succeeded.
Leonard Peltier?
He was literally just building community gardens.
I have been meaning to learning more about him. I guess now is the time.
I never said that they were resorts, why did you cut off the remainder of the sentence which described the torture and humiliation of survivors to make it seem like I defended or downplayed the horrific nature of reservations.
Also for how horrid, disgusting, and inhumane the conditions of the reservations were, they were not death camps. That word has a very specific meaning about the quick, efficient, and factory model method of exterminating as many humans as possible in the shortest possible time. Native Americans were left to starve and suffer an excruciatingly slow planned extinction. They were not factory style liquidated as with the Holocaust.
Because that wasn't relevant and it was there for anyone to see.
“Not relevant”.
The entire sentence doesn’t make sense without the ending, that was the point of it being there. Not for you to cherry-pick an argument.
Motherfucker do you even know about Wounded Knee? The Trail of Tears?
"were moved"
How the fuck you think they were moved?
Wow! There’s more then one example of fucking genocide in the world! Who would have guessed???
I was just reminded of the fact how the ghetto was specifically cordoned off in a city made specifically for the isolated “sub human class”, before the fascistic military of the occupier slowly tightened the noose and liquidated the city with endless artillery bombardment, carpet bombing, and roving extermination squads, until all the inhabitants were exterminated. A situation identical to Gaza.
Do you think I don’t know anything about the endless colonial genocide and violence towards Native Americans? Jesus, I wasn’t arguing with you.
Sorry for the harsh language but no I think you do know about it but just not how much it did have in line with industrialized slaughter that the Nazis did.
For example buffalo skulls and native scalps were valued equally in state mandated bounties because they literally paid militiamen and frontier settlers by the kill to exterminate them as efficiently as possible to pave the way for settlers.
I apologize if I was aggressive and defensive as well. I do not want to even begin to seem like I am attempting to say that the depravity of both genocides was not equal. I was attempting to say that the methods used may have had overlap, but were extremely different. State mandated bounty hunts are a sick extermination tactic, as were the multitude of other depraved methods used, but it is not similar (Note that does not mean it is lesser to, or less important) to a system in which a psychopathic man spends months refining a camp system so that he can exterminate 2,000 people every hour round the clock, 365 days a year, at the camp he oversees that kills a further 10,000 a day from disease, malnutrition, gunshot, exhaustion, and torture. Then that being only one camp out of hundreds in a system designed to leave no trace of its targets in only a decades time.
you could easily say that survivors from the Warsaw ghetto were moved to paltry concentration camps.
Sure you're agreeing, but this comment reads really dismissively to the above imo.
You could have compared it to Warsaw Ghetto with a separate comment, or at least not detracted from our comrades statement, only to then get defensive.
The survivors were moved to Auschwitz under the armed guard of the SS to be immediately exterminated with industrial gas chambers, firing squads, daily death marches, and inhumane working conditions so that none could last more then a few days, let alone a few months. Not dumped in the middle of nowhere to die from starvation and lack of human necessities. Why would you double down. I do not want to detract from the genocide of the Native Americans at all, and I do not want to dismiss what the previous commenter wanted to say. However, your, and his words detract heavily from the specific depravity of the methods used in Holocaust by trying to equalize the methods used with those used in the genocide of the native Americans. Both used to great effect in exterminating millions, but in very different ways.
I mean this in the nicest way possible, but you really seem to be taking some pretty good faith comments very personally, it's not about you or me.
If I am truthful, the vast majority of my family was killed in the Holocaust, or fighting on the Eastern front. Very few people came home to nothing in a city that was wiped off the map, and my family line has essentially vanished with there being very few of us left. It is a very sore subject, and I hope it doesn’t come across as aggressive or wishing to fight you on this topic. But it is still a very painful topic.
that's really terrible comrade, I'm so sorry for you and your family. I'm sure those experiences and memories have left deep intergenerational scars that linger within you and your family... I hope you can find it within yourself, to use those feelings to motivate in our work changing the world.
Sorry if I came across like a shithead, I understand how easy it is to fall into a defencive mode, arguments online with faceless users are so easy to get out of hand. This felt like a small miscommunication that was leading to upset among people who would otherwise be close allies.
It's so hard to judge tone through text, and I could feel myself starting to bitter towards you. I might have said something curt and defensive myself, if I hadn't run to catch a bus. We're all pretty fragile, it's a lot of practice remaing calm and to realise when we're starting to lash out.
I hope you have a good day friend :)
Concentration camp would still not be the most accurate word to describe the situation though. It is not a purpose built area, but an already existing area cordoned off for “containment”. There is literally a word for what you described. It’s called a Ghetto. That is their purpose. To act as a restricted containment area to box in and segregate a target population, usually for the aim of elimination from society, or preparation for extermination.
Hence my example of the Warsaw Ghetto in the first comment. An near identical situation to what is happening in Gaza.