this post was submitted on 29 Sep 2023
274 points (91.0% liked)

News

23267 readers
2987 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] zeppo@lemmy.world 105 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Sometimes people mix up the order of things and thus the cause and effect. For instance, with some medical issues, doctors have thought things like "oh, you went on this extreme diet, then you lost weight and had gastric issues". No, I lost weight and had gastric issues, so I went on an extreme diet. In this case, i think the misogyny precedes lack of success at finding a partner. It can also be a situation of giving up too soon. For me, middle school and high school were so horrible in various ways that i assumed I was 100% doomed - I didn't realize that life after 20 is very different. It still has high school social aspects, but it's a lot better in many ways.

[–] dvtt@lemmings.world 13 points 1 year ago (15 children)

Please teach me how to make the best out of my 20s!

[–] Cheesus@lemmy.world 48 points 1 year ago

Be more accepting of yourself and follow those passions. Nobody cares in your 20s what you do in your spare time, as long as it is something. There is nothing more boring than a person who has no passions and just exists.

[–] johnthedoe@lemmy.ml 26 points 1 year ago (13 children)

If I was to redo my 20s. What worked was going to university in my mid 20s. I was able to finish it much quicker and made some close friends during by that time as well as set my career path going. What I wish I had done was move away from the city I grew up in. I only did it in my late 20s and I regret not doing it sooner.

Have lots of social interactions. It’s valuable. Set yourself up career wise. Always check to know you haven’t hit a ceiling where you’re working. Exercise and travel lots would be my key takeaways.

load more comments (13 replies)
[–] hightrix@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (16 children)

One tip, say yes more than you say no.

Of course, there are exceptions, but try to say yes more than you’d initially want. If coworkers are going out for drinks after work, but you’d rather go home and stream/game/etc, go out. Same for other social activities.

load more comments (16 replies)
[–] Johnvanjim@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

Get fit by finding something you enjoy that gets your heart going, track your spending, learn cook healthy meals, listen well and develop empathy. Good things will come.

[–] foggy@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Find exercise that's fun, that you will continue to do for the rest of your life. Exercise regularly. You don't need to get swole, but it staves off mental health better than anything.

Compare beers to sodas. If you would feel odd drinking 5 sodas in a row, you should feel odd drinking 5 beers in a row. Don't be the last guy at the bar/party.

Just build healthy daily habits.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Don't have kids until your 30s.

[–] roboticide@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And don't feel the need to have kids in your 30s either.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Let go of the small things and just be. It's not exactly "don't give a fuck," but it's close. Aim for meeting people and going out to do things, not necessarily specific people or popular things, just good people and things that are fun for you outside of the house. Realize you will grow and change a lot in your 20s, and so will everyone around you; so if you have a huge crush on someone your age that doesn't like you back that way, then tell yourself you might really dislike them in 5 years so it's not a big loss if they don't like you now. It's also OK to let friends go if you have an attraction to them that isn't returned, because you have to protect your mental health. It's OK to not drink or do drugs, but it's also OK to drink and do drugs... just don't do either to extremes and don't be extreme about not doing drugs/alcohol. Try joining clubs for different things, even things you've never done. Realize most people don't have things figured out in their 20s and that you can make mistakes. Make mistakes. Be well-rounded. It's cool to play video games and DnD, but don't JUST do that (especially if you want to meet women). Get clothes that fit properly, not necessarily expensive or cool clothes. A completely plain t-shirt that fits well (go to Target and buy every color of their Goodfellow everywhere V-neck T for $8 each) plus a pair of jeans that aren't baggy and some Adidas shoes is an outfit you can wear everyday that will look good and is so comfortable.

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (8 replies)
[–] iopq@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's not what this link says

[–] zeppo@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, i drink wine all day and can't actually read.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Probably not the best thing to do if you have gastric issues.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 99 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Yeah the sexual frustration is definitely caused by extreme misogyny though

[–] TheWoozy@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Chicken or egg doesn't really matter. It's a vicious cycle that reinforces itself and gets worse the longer it continues.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] TheWoozy@lemmy.world 86 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (10 children)

If I hadn't met my wife 30+ years ago, I can see how I might have become a sort of paleo-proto-incel...maybe just more of a bitter old maid of a man that no woman would want to be around. I do feel for the incels. They certainly aren't happy. There's something unhealthy about a society that produces so damn many of them.

[–] Nataratata@lemmy.world 56 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Yeah, I don't know. I feel much more sorry for the girls and women who get hit by that hatred. And they definitely do. Online and sometimes offline as well. I see it in school (in Germany) how some boys as young as 12 already bought into the incel narratives and treat the girls accordingly. This has to be stomped out.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago

I pity the girls who get treated horribly and I pity the incels who do it because they're deeply unhappy people. My pity doesn't justify what they do about their unhappiness, but it is a sad state of affairs all around.

[–] rikudou@lemmings.world 28 points 1 year ago

That's part of why they feel like they don't belong and hate the world. No one is saying you should excuse their actions or that you should not prosecute them. I agree that this has to be stomped out, but treating symptoms instead of the causes only goes so far.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] blazeknave@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

Everyone close to me was this. We went outside though and weren't bombarded by screens 24/7. Had space to think and learn and solve and grow. Instead of echo chambers of ppl comprised of the worst parts of ourselves.

load more comments (8 replies)
[–] TipRing@lemmy.world 74 points 1 year ago (4 children)

These guys aren't physically repulsive, it's their shit personalities that keeps them from getting laid.

[–] quindraco@lemm.ee 38 points 1 year ago (4 children)

The study found the opposite. The really bad guys were the ones with many partners.

[–] roboticide@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

At least a subset do. The study concedes it's self-reported and not necessarily a representative sample of all incels.

At the very least, it sounds more to me like there's now just cross-pollination between the old PUA community/philosophy and the incel community. Both are highly misogynistic, but incel culture is literally defined by men unable to find partners and PuAs are defined by men who only find many multiple partners.

A mysoginist claiming to have multiple partners just sounds like a Red Piller to me, not an incel, and I'm a bit suspicious of this whole "study". I'm curious whether this study even bothered to consider that distinction. I read the article top to bottom and found no indication on how they actually identified their sample of incels as incels, and couldn't find a link to the study itself. It appears like they simply found some online mysoginists and assumed they were all incels.

load more comments (3 replies)

They may not all be physically repulsive, and all of their shit personalities aren't all that keeps them from getting laid. 🤪🤣

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 60 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Personally I think not enough attention is paid to how community atomization and sprawl, and the near elimination of the third place in America, has fostered a crisis of loneliness.

Young men chronically have no outlets through which they can socially interact with women. The only place it happened was at school and maybe some extracurriculars if they were especially social.

Society unconsciously brushes this crisis off with "well the real friends that matter are the ones you make in college anyways!" Ignoring how that doesn't help guys that don't have higher study in their life plan, or the fact that learning to properly socialize is kinda the point of those grade school friends you'll probably lose touch with in adulthood.

All that was the case even BEFORE the pandemic hit, now even school's been atomized, granted, rightfully so in the circumstances, with classes going virtual and leaving students in a situation where the Internet is the only place left in the world where they can learn any social skills, and that's where the damned redcaps and chuds swoop in to prey on their insecurities.

[–] Staccato@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago (4 children)

That "college friends" line always bugged me. I keep in closer touch with my good high school friends then I do with my old college friends.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 14 points 1 year ago

Came here to say something similar. Loneliness is the cancer eating our society. I used to feel terribly lonely, even with incredible close friends, around holidays. That translated into feeling lonely much of the time because I was aware there was no one at those special times. Side note: never been an incel or misogynist.

load more comments (6 replies)
[–] zik@lemmy.world 56 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

So it turns out that it's not a lack of women giving them a bad attitude - it's their bad attitude giving them a lack of women. Who'd have thought.

[–] angrystego@lemmy.world 48 points 1 year ago

So if I understand correctly, the study suggests the driving factor might well be longing for social dominance and sociopathic traits and not necessarily sexual frustration.

[–] SickPanda@lemmy.world 42 points 1 year ago (25 children)

My theory that a rising number of men end up being Incels is that it's getting harder and harder for young men to make any experience with women at all.

Online and offline dating became toxic af which leads to frustration. This frustration opens the door for people like Andrew Tate.

The article from OP says the most misogynistic men are ironically the ones which get laid the most. I'd put Andrew Tate into this category.

[–] clemdemort@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Frustration leads to anger, anger leads to hate and hate leads to Tate

load more comments (24 replies)
[–] FoundTheVegan@kbin.social 28 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Sexual frustration comes from mysgonstic talking points that women, rightfully, keep their distance from. Why would I want to sleep with someone who is demeaning and insulting to me? 😂

[–] clearedtoland@lemmy.world 36 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Maybe not you but someone out there might. Age has taught me the world takes all types.

Contrary to the incel narrative, the study found that extreme misogynistic views were driven by a psychology of dominance and status-seeking, which correlated with having many sexual partners.

That’s the real problem. They’re not necessarily sexually frustrated, that’s only a piece of it. It’s a distortion of their value and self-esteem, projected onto women. “If I matter, women should sleep with me.”

[–] xuxebiko@kbin.social 14 points 1 year ago (3 children)

psychology of dominance and status-seeking = entitled

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] MasterBlaster@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Interestingly, that is the same logic MGTOW have for not wanting women in their lives. Just replace mysogeny with misandry in the assertion.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] echodot@feddit.uk 24 points 1 year ago

No because sexual frustration is just being inevitable outcome of their personality. This is only a revelation to people who never met them.

[–] JokeDeity@lemm.ee 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Most incels seem to lean pretty politically conservative, that's where I figure it comes from.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›