this post was submitted on 08 Mar 2025
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A Boring Dystopia

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[–] golden_zealot@lemmy.ml 29 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (8 children)

In the case of the screenshot, absolutely.

I have a question though, and I am curious about the perception here so please be honest as to what you think about my situation. (EDIT: I have received a few responses, and they are terribly informative of all of your perceptions. I want to thank you all for contributing your knowledge to my understanding, as I think by ingesting it, it has made me a better person. Thank you!)

In my case, I own a condo. I worked my ass off doing technical shift work and my parents were fortunate enough in their lives to give me a gift of $20,000 dollars in my local currency to try to buy a home. I am floored. I never thought I would afford the opportunity to potentially own a home of any kind.

I buy a small condo. Two bedrooms. One living room with an attached kitchen. The floors of the building are thin. I can hear my upstairs neighbors walking around and opening and closing doors and drawers at all hours. The insulation is bad, it is cold in winter and hot in summer. I am happy. I have a roof over my head, and I answer to no one for the walls, the fixtures, the plumbing.

I lose my job because the business I worked for fucked up and lost some clients. Because of the lack of cash flow, I and many others are laid off.

I hold on for as long as I can but eventually the cost of mortgage, insurance, groceries add up. I go on unemployment insurance. The economy is fucked because of covid, no one hires me for a year and 6 months.

My unemployment insurance runs out after having submitted 4 resumes daily this entire time, maintaining a log of them for the government EI program.

When I only have a couple thousand dollars left in my bank account, if I want to keep the ownership of my home, I have to move in with my parents again and rent my condo out to keep it at all. My dream of being able to just exist in a home I own is at stake.

The government EI program calls me in for questioning to insure I am a legitimate case. I feel some of the most stress and fear I have ever felt. Logically I know that I have been doing everything I can, but somehow I still feel guilty for having to take advantage of it. I perform the interview, I bring a document detailing the URLs, Descriptions, Dates, everything of every job I have been applying to. The interviewer shows shock on her face. I get the impression that the level of detail I have been maintaining is uncommon. They let me leave without incident.

For rent I charge the exact amount that I have to charge to cover mortgage and insurance, legally required, to maintain my the ownership of my home and nothing more, no profits. I have lived under abusive land lords before and the way they operate disgusts me. I will never be that, I would die before I let myself become that.

A Ukrainian family, Husband and Wife with their 3 year old Daughter are the first to apply. I discuss the property and their lives with them and they are some of the strongest, most responsible, wonderful people I have met in my life who came to my country to escape the situation in theirs. I accept them as my tenants immediately because I recognize how absurdly lucky I am to have these people living in my home, given how smart, how responsible, how kind they are. I promise to myself that at the first opportunity, I will show them the same kindness.

I finally find a job, even though it doesn't pay much, and begin reducing the cost of their rent because I can finally afford it. I begin paying rent to my parents because they are owed that. My bank account begins saving about $100 a month in case I have an emergency I need to cover.

The interest rates lower and condos begin to become cheaper. I intend to lower the cost of the rent based on this when my tenants renew the lease.

This is the last 5 years of my life.

Am I a leech?

Absolutely not. Do what you got to do to move back to your condo.

[–] Krzd@lemmy.world 26 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Am I a leech?

Technically, I guess so, you're profiting just by owning the property. And having tenants exactly balancing out the costs of owning property.

Morally? Fuck no. What you're doing you are doing to survive, not to live excessively.

[–] golden_zealot@lemmy.ml 4 points 12 hours ago (1 children)
[–] nomy@lemmy.zip 9 points 10 hours ago

I don't think most people really think a vacation home or single rental makes you a leech, but when your entire portfolio is single family 2-3 bedroom houses you're kind of sucking the air out of the local market. I know in my city there are tons of "small landlords" with less than 30 houses, half of them don't even live in the city but in ex-urbs an hour away. They don't do anything for the neighborhoods and see their income stream as completely legitimate.

[–] electric_nan@lemmy.ml 20 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

This is tough, because even though you are charging your tenants the exact amount of your minimum mortgage payment, you are still earning equity in an appreciating asset-- eventually you will be able to turn their rent payments into profits. Now, in my opinion, your level of exploitation is very low, and barely worth considering at all.

[–] golden_zealot@lemmy.ml 6 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (1 children)

I would like to move back into my home when it is affordable, but these people are so wonderful that at whatever juncture I owned the property outright and was not paying mortgage, I would lower the cost of their rent to just the insurance cost if that happened, and allow them as much time as they required to find something that works for them before doing so. I know they would understand. I have been up-front about my situation with them from the very beginning because I am not a liar. I am incredibly fortunate to be afforded the potential ability to do such a thing, because my parents are not too concerned with the living situation. It would also bring me immense joy to only charge them $700 or $800 as rent if the mortgage were paid off, just to cover the insurance costs. It would bring me greater joy if I could charge them nothing without bankrupting myself.

Like I said, I never want to exploit anyone. I just want to try to survive like anyone else, to keep what I have. If there are opportunities along the way to help other people, I would much rather that, and if it costs me an absolute zero, or occasionally a little into the negative at this point, that is fine by me. I would love to have these people live in my condo forever for the actual lowest possible cost, or to have their own fully owned home, but if I go bankrupt, the fucking bank or insurer will just take the condo away from both of us.

Thank you for your opinion.

[–] tempralanomaly@lemmy.world 6 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

Its more of the levels and degrees of action taken rather than the action taken itself.

a person owning 1-3 properties, properly maintain the properties, not gouging the heck out of their tenants and looking for long term tenets who will be allowed to live in the property (hang pictures and make it to a degree their own) and generally stay 5-10 years, is in the realm of what i would consider a ethical.

As opposed to slumlords who buy properties to exploit for maximum profit, barely maintain it and cycle through tenants who merely occupy and never feel like they truly live there (out of fear of the expenses on the moving out) and pay for it for 1-2 years before moving because of constant rate increases.

Its the ethical and humane management vs exploitive management.

You will rarely ever hear a peep or complaint against the first. But the latter gets all the vitriol, and rightly so.

[–] deathbird@mander.xyz 7 points 12 hours ago

On the one hand you're getting someone else to make full payments on your mortgage. On the other hand, it's your sole property and the only way you could maintain ownership of it. You weren't profiting over cost, or collecting money from the renters that would go to maintenance (the only actual service/labor that landlords perform). Your choices were practical, not profitable. At least less profitable than you might think. Profitable to the minimum that the system required for you to keep your one home. Short of a revolution where all mortgages are zeroed out, it sounds like you did the best you could.

[–] Echofox@lemmy.ca 9 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (1 children)

I don't believe binary logic is very useful. So I'm not going to answer "am I a leech" because I don't think it has a yes or no answer.

You have an asset that you can't afford, and to afford it you rent it out. That is absolutely valid in a capitalist society, and many people do it. This allows you to hold the asset instead of selling it. That means there's one fewer property on the market, which means that if somebody wants that home they have to rent it from you, where your equity increases and they get a place to live. Again, in a capitalist society this is absolutely valid. And it's not like you aren't taking risk, you could get a bad tenant and they could damage the unit, in turn decreasing your equity. One common "protest" I've seen among renters is to poor grease down the sink, damaging the plumbing over the long time, creating a huge long term cost for the owner. Or flushing cat litter down the toilet, causing a blockage, and similar results. You are accepting risk, and capitalist society says if you accept risk you deserve reward. But from a human-focused perspective you get a very different conclusion.

An issue many people have with this is that the renter is gaining no equity and you are while you aren't contributing production to society. In the world we live this is valid. Another example of this would be dividend stocks, if you hold KO (Coke) you get quarterly dividends, and really you're not actually contributing anything. These are capital gains.

My biggest issue with capital gains is that they're usually taxed lower than labour gains. I think that should be reversed. If capital gains were heavily taxed and that tax was used to better the community then I think it would have more justification. But I digress,

If you sold that property it would probably just go to an investor, but in a world where people couldn't own investment properties it would go to a person or family who would live it in, allowing them to build equity themselves. The number of properties being held and rented out has an impact on the homes available to people buying, or rather being forced to rent.

But ultimately I believe that renting and charging rent is bad for society as a whole. But I also don't think you selling your property wouldn't have any meaningful impact. I think it needs to be a systematic change to be meaningful.

So I'd say you do you, but you are taking advantage of the system and renters. But that's the reality of the world we live in. Doesn't mean it's OK, but does mean you can do it. Also means I won't have sympathy for you if somebody damages your property. But maybe that's because I'm a bad person, I don't know.

I firmly believe homes are for living in, not generating income - even if that income is only to maintain your ownership on your asset. But if you follow that perspective your life will be a bit worse.

Like I said, I don't take the binary perspective.

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[–] null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 11 hours ago

Obviously that depends on how you define "leach" and this community is going to give you a fairly skewed perspective.

[–] thedeadwalking4242@lemmy.world 4 points 11 hours ago

You are a person in a bad position, nothing more nothing less. If you are providing a competitive rate for rent you are benefiting these people, especially since you were up front with them. Your plans were not to be a landlord but this is where you have been forced. Hopefully you are able to return to your home soon

[–] Acters@lemmy.world 2 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

there is one separating detail that is not shared between most of us. It really depends on how long that tenant lives there. if they are living there for a long period of time and like the place, then yes you are a leech, but a good one since they enjoy living there enough to stay. On the other hand, if you switch tenants often because of high rent costs or bad housing(maintenance included), then you are just simply a leech and not a good one because you are not even providing anything, you instead are holding the property that is simply rotting away with no way for the family holding it to be able to make changes or work towards making it better as they don't own it. If they leave for other reasons outside of your control, then you are not a leech and provided good housing for someone.

Since this isn't usually known by most and takes time to build that moral ideal, it is usually up to you to consider how to act and there is not really an incentive or demand for you to act morally good. Your current living arrangements, life choices and poor job market is not applicable here, you held a home and still operate on living on someone's paycheck. I hope the best for you and anyone who might be put in a bad spot, I know I am in my own bad spot. Would I try to hold myself to a moral high ground? maybe, though pain is short and I will likely still act not morally good at times, though I am not going to consider myself otherwise but a leech if I do. I would rather make sure I can get new tenants by making sure I get the current one is able to get one that is better or their own property, and help someone new with housing. That is what I think a good landlord could do but if the family likes the house then I can help them afford to buy it off me. See it is just business.

That is only for leeching aspects. I bet there are more complex thinking involved but this is what I think who a financial/real state leech is.

[–] circuitfarmer@lemmy.sdf.org 66 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

They act like everyone could do this.

If everyone did this, the system would fail, because the profit here is scooped off the top with no actual production or service.

[–] Cort@lemmy.world 19 points 15 hours ago

It would also require everyone to own 4+ houses which isn't exactly feasible

[–] Sgt_choke_n_stroke@lemmy.world 44 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Landlords don't contribute to society

[–] SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org 12 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Quite the opposite in fact.

[–] Chivera@lemmy.world 2 points 6 hours ago

Yeah they contribute a lot of pain and suffering

[–] thisfro@slrpnk.net 24 points 15 hours ago (3 children)

I had to rant in a couple of comments because I drives me crazy when people defend leeching.

On a more constructive note: Housing cooperatives. I think they should be more widespread. Some people come together to build a house and then live in it for the cost it takes to actually support it. No crazy big apartments with a reasonable amount of people (roughly one bedroom per person), shared luxury such as gardens, in house shops, hell even a pool if you want. There is no leeching, just collective ownership.

[–] Zorg@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 15 hours ago (2 children)

Housing cooperatives (wiki) are quite great. Where I'm from they are rather common, but unfortunately the 'buy in' costs have increased a ton in the last couple decades. Even then, paying e.g. a third of what a comparable owner apartment costs, still makes it a lot more affordable for many people.

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[–] MithranArkanere@lemmy.world 230 points 22 hours ago (30 children)

If it would destroy the economy if everyone did it, then it should not be doable in the first place.

[–] arandomthought@sh.itjust.works 85 points 20 hours ago (4 children)

Step one: Have a shitton of money to buy property to rent out.
Oh, you don't have enough money? Hhm, have you tried not being poor?

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[–] DrFistington@lemmy.world 45 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (10 children)

I used to have my own place before my wife and I got married, and she had her own house too. When I moved in with her I decided to rent out my place to a friend, otherwise I'd have to still pay like $650 a month for my mortgage. I set my friends rent at $900 a month for him and a friend, with cats. I paid my mortgage and had some extra to save up in case a repair was needed. Average rent for an apartment (not a house) was 1200-1500 in the same area. My renters ended up taking better care of the house than I ever did. It was beautiful when they lived there. I ended up making about 5k to 10k extra bucks over the course of a few years and my mortgage was paid for me. Eventually they had to move out due to some issues between the two at which point I sold the house and made over six figures(net profit, not gross), off a house that cost less than $80,000 when I bought it.

See what I did there? I charged a reasonable rent and still made a totally stupid amount of money off of just one property. I wasn't a goddamn parasite who tried to bleed my tenants for everything they were worth.

People like these total shitbags. They're the reason why America's youth have no future

[–] commander@lemmings.world 2 points 8 hours ago

That's nice, but you shouldn't have an extra property to rent out to others when there's not enough to go around.

[–] underisk@lemmy.ml 34 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (9 children)

Using my “friends” to pay off a personal debt while making $250/mo in profit off them. See, it’s possible to be a good landlord, everyone!

Did you share any of what you made from the sale with your “friends” who helped you pay for it and kept it in good condition for you?

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[–] the_q@lemm.ee 10 points 15 hours ago (3 children)

Your "friend" still paid a substantial portion of your mortgage and gained nothing from it beyond being out of the rain. You used him and paint it as mutually beneficial.

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[–] objject_not_found@lemm.ee 8 points 14 hours ago

I live in the UK and many neighbours of mine are "professional landlords" and it is so annoying seeing them so relaxed and doing nothing while I am stressed and anxious at my job.

[–] thisfro@slrpnk.net 22 points 18 hours ago (10 children)

You still take someone elses money, just less of it.

[–] singletona@lemmy.world 27 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

See, when the Landlord charges reasonable rates, and actually provides services in exchange for that rent (helping update appliances to newer, having paperwork on hand for any code/inspections needed for property changes (that the landlord would ultimately benefit from,) and in general treating it as a matter of 'I have obligations' instead of 'I will do nothing but I will absolutely blame the tennants for the inevetable crumbling of the property.'

I dislike the concept at base level, but that is a someone who is trying to not be a scumbag.

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[–] Devanismyname@lemmy.ca 22 points 17 hours ago (46 children)

Can we not shit all over normal people for doing normal stuff? This dude doesn't run Blackrock, he had a single rental property.

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[–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 39 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

It's simple to be successful:

  1. have rich parents that can give you money

  2. have easy access to loan programs because you're white and have rich parents

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[–] Pronell@lemmy.world 132 points 23 hours ago (3 children)

All so that none of their tenants can afford any of those four things without constantly struggling!

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