Comradeship // Freechat

There's a tendency for video game thought with things like this. The conflict doesn't have to end in a military confrontation where the blue units kill all the red ones. Vietnam didn't really directly beat America in the field, they won by being tenacious and sticking it out beyond the occupation's patience.

The entity has to exterminate its opposition to 'win'. Palestinians just have to resist until they give up. It's kinda trite and there is a real risk that things get very bad, I won't deny that, but only one side needs a total victory here. Any occupier who throws in the towel and goes back home, anyone who decides not to come because of the risk, any negotiation, these are all victories for a resistance movement.

And things unravel in ways we don't anticipate. Things look impossible until they don't.

Drawn out border conflict on multiple fronts. Same way apartheid South Africa was defeated and Namibia won it's independence.

At the very least, the Palestinians have gravely hurt the reputation of the West as a whole and are another blow to its hegemony.

Ukraine, Nigeria, Gabon and so on. The pressure is mounting and the economies of Europe are declining.

That being said, the road to freedom for the Palestinians is long and this is just one of many steps

I think it's good to guess that the group that planned this operation for years has some sketch of a plan moving forward.

I honestly have no idea.

I don't think the zionist state will ever be able to return to the status quo from before, so it's either winning or complete annihilation. I hope Palestine wins.

I can only see them winning with direct intervention from Iran and Hezbollah. Hezbollah uses this opportunity to launch an attack from the north. Iran starts sending barrages of missiles towards Israel's electrical grid and military targets, and Palestinians use guerilla tactics to distract them. The rest of the Middle East should embargo Israel during this conflict.

This actually seems like the perfect opportunity to attack, since the US army is drained of resources. The US strategic oil reserve is also pretty low, so if the US starts making threats, Iran can simply close the straight of Ormuz and the price of oil would skyrocket overnight. But I don't think any of this will happen.

In terms of some kind grand treaty and international recognition? Not anytime soon. Things are rarely so clear-cut.

However, a lot of occupiers left Israel after these attacks. Those are concrete wins because that is exactly what should be happening. Palestine has little left to lose, this is their home and they are already in concentration camps. Many Israelis have other citizenships and can go back home anytime they want. Who do you think is inclined to fight harder.

I think a better question might be can Israel ever actually win this, and the answers to that is no. Not without a genocide even worse than anything we have ever seen to date. There will always be people willing to fight against the invaders.

Arab countries apply pressure

When Iran, Syria, Lebanon and Hezbollah join. Hezbollah already did.

Jihad will win

there needs to be some kind coalition between Gulf States (and preferably Russia) i feel like. but that is unlikely since they are American client/puppet states. Lebanon probably doesn't war with Israel because of its internal issues. Egypt is ruled by an American puppet. Syria hasn't mentioned anything I think and they too have their own set of internal issues.

People saying there should be all out attacks by neighbors need to get off their Armchair General chair imo or stop playing Age of Empires. Like please actually consider realistically what will happen and analyze materially what is going on.

If Iran was to launch a all out attack on Israel then Israel and the US would likely escalate to the point of using their nukes. Then it’s an Armageddon situation, and the left, and ultimately the mass of people in the Middle East, are not going to benefit. To the extent that anyone will benefit it will be Islamists, who’s objectives and interests are fundamentally at odds with those of socialist movements.

If anyone thinks this would be productive for the Middle Eastern left then they haven’t gone their head screwed on right.

Those other nations are not led by idiots or ultra edge lords on the internets. They are ware that to attack Israel at this point would be catastrophic for everyone involved. They have their own interests and will likely use diplomatic pressure. Maybe I’m wrong, but I’d be shocked.

Hezbollah is different as they are an Islamist group which have someone like a state within a state in Lebanon. They have shelled, but have not launched anything like a massive attack, not least because if they did either Israel or even the US may the intervene seriously in Lebanon or stay bringing out their more serious weapons of war so to speak. They have more interest, as always, like the leadership of Hamas, in milking the deaths of countless Palestinians for their own political benefit and legitimacy. Any other view of these groups is naive imo.

In terms of how the Palestinians can win, well I’d point first of all how neither Palestinians nor the range of opposition is identical to Hamas, which is a mistake that people on this site still incapable of not making. They are not democratic representatives of either Gazas nor obviously the Palestinians in the other territories.

The way Palestinians would win is by brining Israel economically to its knees and forcing them to accept a Palestinian state, though at this point. I’m pessimistic no matter the outcome. Just as Leninists recognize that indiscriminate terrorism is not going to being about revolution, but mass-organized labour groups are, the same applies in Palestine. It tells me volumes that people on this site don’t seem to be aware or are conveniently ignoring that Hamas, like the PA and Israel, have actively prevented any organic, mass labour movements from emerging in a form like the First Intifada. They are terrified of that possibility because like all Islamists they are acutely aware that that is antithetical to their interests.

We will see how it plays out. I don't like speculating about human lives but I wish the Palestinian resistance much success.

They need to capture Israeli hardware and recruit the Arab residents within Israel to enlarge their fighting force.

palestinians can't win because there's too much money and propagandized people to ever let them; instead the best they can hope for is survival like the many other oppressed people before them and at least for now

I'll be real: As long as Israel is getting the funding they are, I don't really see a Palestinian path to victory.

People are bringing up Vietnam and how they won by death by a thousand cuts, but the circumstances in this conflict are significantly, I'd even dare say dramatically different. That's not to say Palestine is completely helpless to fight back, but even after this flare-up the deck is still heavily in Israel's favor here. One has near-total control over the other's food, water, electricity and has air superiority, while the other doesn't.

It all comes down to the money flow: Weaken or even destroy that, and suddenly the odds change drastically.

Unless the West changes It’s opinion, this is reality for the foreseeable future. The world is suffering an empathy crisis.

I don't see any other country getting involved any more than equipment, but I wonder how the perception of Palestine has changed over the years and if this war is changing anything there.

one thing that could happen is colonizers losing the stomach for it, like how some of the photos coming out of viet nam disgusted some americans, but i don't have any read on the state of antizionism in israel and i'm a little foggy on the actual chain of effect from anti-war activities to the american withdrawal.

The war has been going on for a lifetime and is likely to continue for a long time still. The only way Palestine can win, ie. dismantle the zionist entity and liberate all of Palestine, is if the United States loses the will or (more likely) the ability to prop up the apartheid regime. The evil empire has lost its industrial base due to neoliberal orthodoxy, it is overextended abroad and it is becoming more and more internally unstable. There may come a day when they have to let Palestine go but that day is still far off in my opinion.

What Palestinian resistance can do is to accelerate the overextension, stress the occupiers and increase the price of occupation, all of which brings the downfall of the zionist entity closer. The Al-Aqsa Flood dealt a huge blow to the prestige of the zionist entity, it's occupation force and military and surveillance industrial complex. It also reminded settlers that they are living on stolen land in a war zone and that they run the risk of being struck by the resistance no matter how hard they try to pretend to be a normal country. Their sense of security and normality has been completely destroyed. All of this will make new potential settlers think twice about going to Palestine to take part in the genocide. Stealing someone's house and taunting them while fascist stormtroopers keeps you safe is one thing, getting a bullet through your skull from a chad in a hangglider is a completely different deal.

In all likelihood the Al-Aqsa Flood will probably fail in a strictly military sense but they will have done great damage to the economy of the zionist entity, put a spanner in the works of US geopolitical ambitions in the region (Saudi talks with the zionist entity are on hold, Sausis and Iranians are talking with eachother and agreeing) and forced the evil empire as well as the zionist to use more of their limits resources to keep Palestine occupied. It might be in a distant future but they have brought the day of liberation closer.