this post was submitted on 15 Oct 2023
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Hey all,

I'm currently developing a Marxist-Leninist analysis of settler colonialism, especially in light of the situation in Palestine, and am going to read Settlers: The Mythology of the White Proletariat by J. Sakai for the first time. Before I do I was just curious what other comrades think of the book and its analysis? It seems a pretty controversial text among many online Marxist groups, to whatever extent that matters, but as an Indigenous communist I feel having a clear and principled stance on the settler question is important for all serious communists. I'm not sure if I'll agree with Sakai specifically, but since I generally agree with the opinions of y'all, I was curious as to your thoughts on the book.

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[–] bubbalu@hexbear.net 34 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

It is fantastic as a revolutionary anti-racist, anti-imperialist history of the US Empire. I recommend it to virtually everyone on those grounds. However, his ideological basis is heavily informed by the widespread pessimism that followed the collapse of the US New Left anti-colonial struggles of internally oppressed nations (as Sakai characterizes). He embraces a brand of Third Worldism whose main practical application is to give up on revolutionary activity in the imperial core, since all workers are labor aristocrats who benefit more from imperialism than they are exploited by Capitalism.

While the degree of exploitation of workers in the imperial core is unquestionably lower, while White workers unquestionably benefit immensely from racism, we cannot accept defeat as a given.

The primary contradiction in the world is between Imperialist Nations and Colonized Nations. "Leftists" in the imperial core cannot wait for the comrades in the Global South to liberate themselves, we must be active strugglers for their liberation and our own. We must believe revolution is possible to hold any attitude other than 'lie down and rot'.

Also watching white people squirm reading is really fun. A comrade's conservative, racist sibling has possibly the only actual 'SJW Marxist Professor' in the US who is making the class read it. The comrade has been giving us updates on the growth of their sibling's growing guilt and political conciousness.

Read Settlers!

[–] Beat_da_Rich@lemmygrad.ml 31 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

The pessimism makes more sense given the context of the time it was written in. I've heard Gerald Horne's Counterrevolution series described by some as a more contemporary analysis that succeeds Settlers.

I think the controversial rap the book gets is due more to its more dogmatic followers. Like a lot of maoists/third worldists, they have accurate observations but draw questionable conclusions from them.

[–] bubbalu@hexbear.net 14 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It's definitely a justifiable pessimism at the time, but that doesn't make it correct or currently applicable.

[–] frauddogg@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

According to you, maybe. From where I sit, the decade's watchphrase has been "second, third, fourth, and fifth-through-tenth verses, same as the first"; where the first verse was the failure of Reconstruction. For 100+ years, settlers have done us the dirtiest(right behind to the damn-near-totally-extincted tribes of the Indigenous if I'm honest), and it doesn't appear to be changing its intensity, just its manifestations. So... Why isn't that pessimism applicable?

[–] QueerCommie@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Because we have to believe in something if we are going to escape the climate crisis as a species. We are capable of success as the US empire crumbles and comrades wake up to decolonial thought. We all need to be involved in some kind of organizing, whether it be international solidarity or building dual power.

[–] frauddogg@lemmygrad.ml 13 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

You're not wrong for the need for some kind of belief; but I don't apply mine to some rosy ideal that after all that's been done, after 200 years of slavery and dehumanization, and then 200 more years of even more abuse, marginalization, and oppression (but legal under the constitution and bill of rights this time!), we're somehow going to find a way to put all that behind us and skip merrily, arm-in-arm into the sunset. I apply my belief and optimism to the idea that one day, we'll have a nation of our own, carved out of the guts of Amerika, hand in hand with our indigenous comrades. I have none for those who descended from this nation's original settlers. My organizing is explicitly with the colonized.

I constantly watch the descendants fail to put their bodies on the same wheels and gears we're forced to put our bodies on, day in and day out. I see them let Black bodies get slabbed out by pigs. I see them let Black children get stripped of their mothers and fathers, their parents condemned to carceral slavery, and those children mandated to a foster pipeline that will inevitably see them in the same prisons, likely abused into antisocial behavior-sets beforehand. I see them let Black would-be professionals get stripped of their inroads to the same successes that the whites are practically hand-gifted.

You'll have to forgive me for not putting my faith in any of that; because I don't see the settlers en masse adopting decolonial thought. The sheer vast weight of Amerikan cognitive dissonance will break at least (there was a much more harsh percentage here. Being charitable, we'll say 'half') of them before they get there. I don't see a society I want to be a part of in the settlers anymore, or that I'd want my family and community a part of; even if we assume the descendants were able to unlearn everything they've been taught.

[–] QueerCommie@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I totally agree, I just think it’s best to avoid pessimism. “Pessimism of the mind, optimism of the will” and all that.

[–] frauddogg@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 2 years ago

Very valid; I just had to explain the method behind what some would no doubt see as madness. You've tended to have a fairly level head on your shoulders as long as I've seen you post.

[–] cayde6ml@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Speaking as Latino person, that hope is one of the only things that keeps me alive. And in a slightly dark but bright side-ish way, we don't need every settler to adopt decolonial thought. Just enough to have an army.

[–] QueerCommie@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 2 years ago

And even then, we won’t be the only army. We will have international allies (including victims of Amerikkan imperialism on this continent and abroad).

[–] bubbalu@hexbear.net 11 points 2 years ago

To me, pessimism is defeatist and essentialist. It seems to state that the current principle contradiction within settler society (anti-Blackness) is insurmountable. I agree, anti-Blackness is inherent to the US settler civilization but I have to believe that that civilization can be overcome in order for revolutionary work to be possible. It is not likely in the short-term, but to me you have to believe something is possible in order to struggle for it.

[–] taiphlosion@lemmygrad.ml 28 points 2 years ago (1 children)

One of the best books I've ever read, makes crackers so uncomfortable.

It's not like the book says send whitey back to Europe, just that they as a settler class have no vested interest in decolonizing. It's not that controversial imo but I'm Black and also Indigenous so 🤷🏿‍♂️ spoke to me just fine

[–] frauddogg@lemmygrad.ml 22 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

I don't have any native in me as far as I know; but considering the trail for my geneaology disappears after the 1890s, it's totally in the air as to who and what. And yeah, same situation as you-- spoke to me just as seamlessly as Wretched of the Earth or We Will Shoot Back. (Which, if you don't have that latter one, it's by Akinyele Omowale Umoja; Black Agenda Report put me onto it a few months back.)

As for OP-- I don't expect anyone to really agree 100% with Settlers, but I've read it cover-to-cover like twice now, with a third coming up the next time I have a good, long break. It's controversial because one, Sakai published under pseudonym and that's enough to make naive, non-opsec minded 'comrades' shit their britches. Two, Sakai was maybe even more abrasive than brother Ture in his analyses; and that makes the settlers immensely uncomfortable. Three, it illuminates a WHOLE BUNCH of buried Amerikan malfeasance; and if I learned anything about the publicity that the settlers 'learning' about Tulsa engendered, a lot of the controversy is coming from people who don't want to think about their nations and organizations of choice doing the things they did.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 13 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

I have distant Ioway and Charokee, but since I'm white passing and have no connection to tribal heritage I'd count myself as a settler.

It's a distressing book, because it basically tells every settler "you aren't the main character." We can only support actual revolutionaries.

[–] frauddogg@lemmygrad.ml 23 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

because it basically tells every settler “you aren’t the main character.”

I mean, if I might be so bold, I'd think some settlers need to hear that message lmao. Joking aside, it's that kind of thing that I don't know a single Black comrade that actually organizes with settler orgs and parties and doesn't have a story about getting absolutely talked over, sidelined, and otherwise made to feel 'other' within those very organizations; and I think if we got enough white leftists to internalize that message of Settlers at least once, we'd actually start making some headway in equality in this shithole of a nation.

And mind-- I'm not saying that settlers can't lead their own left organizations; but on matters of liberation, especially Black and Indigenous liberation respectively, they unequivocally should not expect to be at the head of the table on the when, where, how, and why. They should consider themselves lucky to even have a seat at that table if they do; which they likely will bc good luck extricating a settler when someone already fucked around and gave them an invite to the kickback, but it should be understood that it ain't the settler's place to talk any kind of sideways about these matters like they're leading and presiding over them.

[–] muad_dibber@lemmygrad.ml 20 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Nother historical thread with this same question:

https://lemmygrad.ml/post/309338

[–] KKSankara@lemmygrad.ml 13 points 2 years ago
[–] freagle@lemmygrad.ml 19 points 2 years ago

Read with a pencil in hand. Write things down. Analyze it by breaking it apart. Then read Tuck and Yang's "Decolonization is not a metaphor". Compare and contrast your notes. Develop a nuanced read of Settlers.

[–] Bobson_Dugnutt@hexbear.net 18 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It's a good book that's worth reading, even though I disagree with some of Sakai's conclusions, and I think he was unfair to certain multi-racial leftist groups like the IWW.

I'd also recommend An Indigenous Peoples' History of the United States.

[–] ButtBidet@hexbear.net 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The funny thing is that Sakai is actually very positive towards the IWW, they come off as one of the best white organisations in US history. I'll admit, though, that he does critique them in regards to their syndicalism.

[–] Bobson_Dugnutt@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Maybe I'm thinking of a different org, it's been awhile since I read it

[–] ButtBidet@hexbear.net 9 points 2 years ago

Nah, he did critique them on their lack of analysis on imperialism and the state. Generally, Sakai was pretty rough on everyone in the US. He did say a lot of positive things about the IWW, though, which is very unlike every single white organisation (liberal or radical).

He absolutely tore other unions to shreds, though.

[–] ButtigiegMineralMap@lemmygrad.ml 16 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Is it worth adding to an ML booklist? If so where would it go? Near the beginning for new-comers or near the end for nuanced and complex theory?

[–] simply_surprise@lemmygrad.ml 16 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I think midway through in "theory for specific places or conditions".

[–] ButtigiegMineralMap@lemmygrad.ml 13 points 2 years ago

Cool I’ll add it alongside some Mao Zedong readings, I feel like those are also good for making good Party decisions and resolutions during specific circumstances, even if it isn’t the most applicable in current situations, it’s still useful to know.

[–] supersolid_snake@lemmygrad.ml 16 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Great book, you see a lot of assertions proven correct right now. It's also full of facts. If the assertions of the book touches nerves they should try to prove it wrong by uniting and supporting their comrades.

[–] DesiDebugger@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 2 years ago

It is one of the best if not the best looks into how settler colonialism functions especially from a socialist context.

[–] ImOnADiet@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Incredibly important book if you’re american, or even canadian or australian (are there versions of Settlers for them lol?). Might be more important than even basic theory if you’re white. Not a perfect book by any means, likely in large part because (I think) what we have is like the first draft and wasn’t even going to be put out until his comrades pressured him into publishing it. I wouldn’t trust any critiques of it from someone who isn’t explicitly a decolonial marxist.

[–] QueerCommie@lemmygrad.ml 13 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Great book. I disagree with his conclusions (my take is there is a white working class especially with neoliberal proletarianization, but it’s extremely important to consider them as part of an oppressor nation) and it’s not dialectical, but it’s definitely worth reading. I wish someone re-did it today (for more recent data and Marxist analysis. I’m impressed by the scope of the book and I learned a lot from it. You should probably read more better done and specified books along with it though, like ‘the red deal,’ ‘fresh banana leaves,’ etc.

[–] muad_dibber@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

I'd consider any of Zak Cope's work, especially divided world, divided class, as some of the best modern works addressing labor aristocracy / socialized bribery theory and neocolonialism in the modern era.

Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz also has great stuff, an indigenous peoples history, and loaded are excellent expose's of the US settler garrison.

[–] QueerCommie@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 2 years ago

Totally, also Gerald Horne’s great work among others.

[–] simply_surprise@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

It's been maybe the most illuminating book I've read.

[–] ButtBidet@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago

One of my top ten books, it changed my life and my whole worldview. I'm glad that this thread isn't devolving into all the other internet discussions on Sakai, which is to criticism him for things he never said. Even the disagreements I'm seeing here seem fair.

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