this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2023
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[–] Heresy_generator@kbin.social 224 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

“I beseech you to control him if you can,” [Judge] Engoron said. “If you can’t, I will. I will excuse him and draw every negative inference that I can.”

Ultra-mega-fucked.

Trump attorney Alina Habba at one point stood up and argued that the judge was there to listen to what Trump had to say. “I am not here to listen to what he has to say!” Engoron reportedly shouted, telling Trump’s counsel to sit back down. “We are here to hear him answer questions,” he added.

LMAO at a bottom tier lawyer trying to tell a judge how to do their job.

[–] Witchfire@lemmy.world 111 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Trumpsplaining the judge

[–] logicbomb@lemmy.world 108 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Also, Judge Engoran has 20 years of experience being a judge, and he was a practicing lawyer before that. He was a judge before Habba got her license, and he's probably more than double her overall experience.

The fact that she didn't even know that witness testimony means answering questions really puts a big question mark over her 13 years, anyways.

[–] SinningStromgald@lemmy.world 57 points 1 year ago

The question mark appeared when she agreed to represent Trump.

[–] constantokra@lemmy.one 32 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I have to say, none of that means shit if he lets the guy run all over him and do whatever he likes with no consequences. Most people can't piss a judge off that much without spending time in jail.

[–] Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 26 points 1 year ago

Watch the proceedings of that "sovereign citizen" idiot Darrell Brooks who drove a car into a Christmas parade in Wisconsin. That guy never heard the phrase "just shut the fuck up". It's so maddening to watch that insolent manchild, I couldn't make it past two minutes of footage.

[–] Afghaniscran@feddit.uk 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I feel like I have to clarify that I'm not American before making comments so there's enough wiggle room for potential ignorance.

I think it probably is a tactic he is using so that when it's time for consequences, there's plenty of leeway given to trump to show that he wasn't acting biased, it's just that trump is a fucking moron that can't shut up, when the lunatics decide to shout about it.

[–] constantokra@lemmy.one 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's possible. People literally get years added to their sentences for back talking judges. You are simply not allowed to derail a trial even a little bit, and the consequences for attempting it are swift and harsh. For anyone else.

I'm so tired of this fuckwit's behavior, but i'm even more angry that at every turn people have had the ability to stop that behavior and haven't. And now we're here. Anyone else would be immediately taken to jail for the stuff he's doing inside the courtroom and out and he's still not stopped.

It's a mockery, and if the courts can't handle this guy they have no business ruining people's lives for things that don't compare to anything trump has done.

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[–] Fades@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I see you have no fucking clue what you’re talking about.

no consequence

lmao

Trump is trying to frustrate the fuck out of Engoron, that’s why he and his lackeys have been attacking the law clerks and pushing false narratives about them like the dating a senator or donated to dems bullshit.

Engoron is weathering this storm by slowly and methodically building a trail of evidence so if this is taken to appeals based on the “unfair judge” bullshit they keep spewing about, the judge has an undeniable response to that.

Summary judgment was already granted, he’s guilty, this is about determining size of disgorgement. Trump isn’t running away with a damn thing, and I think it’s hilarious that you do.

Most people can’t piss a judge off that much without spending time in jail

Wow thanks for telling us. Guess what? trump isn’t just some fucking guy, he has a large portion of republicans that will truly do anything he asks, he has a very long history of using litigation to bully his way to what he wants and like it or not he has connections and funding to keep pulling on those same threads.

This is about letting Trump sink himself, it’s not a goddamn race to the finish line (well… aside from 11/24)

It’s almost like court justice is never swift but methodical, and it’s almost like with these cases methodical is the way to go instead of snap punishments. Thank god the judge can think past any current moment and look to the bigger picture, unlike you.

I’ll save you the trouble for your inevitable reply

b-b-but nothing has happened to him so it just won’t ever!!!!!

Try not to forget there is NO precedent for ANY of this. WE CANNOT RUSH ANY OF THIS.

[–] constantokra@lemmy.one 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You have a bad day or something? That's a whole torrent of nastiness, and it seems like you missed the context of my comment.

The judge is letting him behave horribly. That usually gets you at least a night in jail. That's the lack of consequences i'm talking about.

If you don't think that's a big deal, consider that trump only acts the way he does because a long succession of people who could have and should have put him in his place didn't do it.

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[–] TechyDad@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Thank you. I understand why people are itching for Engoron to send Trump to jail for contempt. It would be very satisfying in the short term. The problem is that the judge has to think long term. If he sends Trump to jail now for a day and that tanks the whole case Inc appeal, that's in the judge. So Engoron is putting up with Trump's shenanigans while building an appeals proof judgment.

Is it more annoying in the short term seeing Trump "get away with" so much with, at most, little fines? Sure, but this is what's best in the long term. Engoron has been a judge for decades. I trust he knows his job better than people whose legal experience is "I watched a few Law and Order episodes, listened to a law podcast once, and watched a few legal YouTubers." (No offense intended to legal YouTubers. I love Legal Eagle especially. But you can't assume you're a legal expert just because you watched those videos. There's a reason that it takes years to study law.)

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[–] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 36 points 1 year ago (1 children)

One of the most important rules when doing anything in a courtroom: don’t piss off the judge.

[–] TechyDad@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

Trump: "So what I'm hearing is that I should yell at the judge and insult him from the stand. Got it."

(Yes, he did just that.)

[–] TechyDad@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago

She was also complaining, after court, that the judge was telling her what to do and she doesn't stand for that in her life.

Um, you do when you're in the court. If the judge tells you to shut up, you shut up. You can be offended that the judge told you to shut up, but you'd better not argue with the judge and tell them that you have a right to say whatever you want to say in their court. Not unless you want to spend a night in a jail cell.

[–] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And this is exactly how they will fuel their appeal. He will say the judge was unwilling to listen to his testimony, and use that quote as evidence.

[–] Heresy_generator@kbin.social 27 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That appeal would be quickly denied. The Judge is absolutely right: They "are here to hear him answer questions", not "to listen to what he has to say." The Judge has a responsibility to keep testimony responsive to the questions asked and relevant to the case, not to let witnesses give monologues about whatever nonsense is running through their heads at the moment.

[–] athos77@kbin.social 216 points 1 year ago (3 children)

At one point, while he was being questioned on a 2021 financial statement, Trump claimed to have been too busy focusing on “China, Russia and keeping our country safe.” The state’s attorney reminded him that he was not president in 2021.

lmao.

[–] Telorand@reddthat.com 71 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's like a middle schooler trying to make up an alibi for why they didn't do their homework.

[–] JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca 50 points 1 year ago

Antifa ate my homework ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[–] cuibono@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

He really is Cartman. Just slightly less intelligent lol.

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[–] TechyDad@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago

I liked how Trump claimed that Letitia James wouldn't know anything about 40 Wall Street. She had to suppress a chuckle. Her office is under 3 blocks away from it. Here's a Google Map of the two.

[–] DrugsMcChrist@lemmy.ml 99 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The problem is that this is a strategy, and it might work. The judge is showing signs of exasperation. The defense is laying the grounds for an appeal based on judicial bias. Viewed in that light, each time the judge interjects out of annoyance or exasperation is citable evidence. It's funny, but it is also rather dangerous.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 106 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The judge needs to calmly and patiently explain to Trump that he will be jailed for contempt if he doesn't follow the rules and act in good faith, and then dispassionately follow through with that consequence.

Don't threaten him, don't cajole his lawyers to constrain him, don't complain about his behavior. Just give him a time-out, like the petulant toddler he is, until he gets it through his skull that his bullshit won't be tolerated.

Once he comes back, if he won't agree to behave or if he does promise to behave and then breaks that promise, simply immediately put him back in the cell for another round.

Trump needs to see the inside of a holding cell for a while in order to act right.

[–] Wrench@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago (8 children)

As much as I'd love to see it, jailing him for contempt would play right into their plan. He wouldn't see 24hr of cell time before his fanatic base would be whipped into violence, painted as political persecution of the GOP (defacto) nominee

It's all paper thin excuses to anyone with critical thinking, but we know it'd be a successful ploy.

[–] TwoGems@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago

They already do violence who cares. Every mass shooting is almost always a Trump supporter.

[–] iforgotmyinstance@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago

What the fuck is the national guard for then? It's the correct and legal punishment, and it's a matter of national security. These concepts are not conflicting.

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm prepared to defend myself, my family and my home. Ever fought a bully? They fucking cave with the quickness.

One silly bitch got shot through the neck and they scrambled out of that part of the Capitol.

I'm not brave, but if they think I'm harmless, they are free to test that assumption.

[–] Fades@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

Get fucked Babbitt

[–] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

Fuck em. They already sent their best on Jan 6. I'm not impressed. The National Guard can steamroll them and the cops if the cops turn traitor.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  1. It doesn't even need to be 24 hours. I suspect giving him even a 1-hour time-out would be plenty.

  2. I couldn't care less what The Base thinks of it.

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[–] badbytes@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

It's not terrible for the crazies to show us where they be.

[–] ghostdoggtv@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

Let them do their violence, it'll end like Ft. Sumpter the first time around.

[–] DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de 27 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I don't think it's a strategy, it's just a happy potential by-product, albeit an unlikely one.

Sure it's possible that a judge might make mistakes that may form the basis for a successful appeal. Is Engoron more likely to make mistakes because of Trump's antics? Not necessarily. Most people do their best work under pressure.

Trump's behavior is focused as always on his supporters. The more he appears to be persecuted the more his supporters will throw money at him - it's that simple. He's intentionally pushing the judge as far as he can without crossing the line into actual consequences.

Edit: as an aside the photos of these idiots always makes me think about how much time they've spent practicing their facial expressions in a mirror.

[–] Telorand@reddthat.com 17 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I'll add to that that wasting a judge's time through non-compliance is a fast track to default judgment. Just ask Alex Jones how that goes.

The right to a speedy trial is a right for the prosecutors, too.

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[–] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 93 points 1 year ago (2 children)

"You are the most guilty, uncooperative, unapologetic criminal I've ever dealt with" — Judge

Slap on wrist — also, Judge

I'll believe otherwise when I see it.

[–] RojoSanIchiban@lemmy.world 55 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This judge already ruled that the Trump enterprise in NY is dead and for all business licenses to be pulled. That has been stayed pending appeal. They will not win the appeal.

This trial is purely for damages to see just how much of Trump's assets will have to be liquidated once Judge Engoron determines an amount based on this ridiculous "testimony."

Hint: it's going to be a metric fuckload

[–] Kbin_space_program@kbin.social 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This trial, for the defence, is an effort to pull a much shit as they can to aim for a mistrial and years worth of appeals.

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[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 54 points 1 year ago (1 children)

At one point he indicated that he had sometimes felt the values assigned to his properties were off, but stated that the discrepancies were both “high and low.”

"Your honor, I'd like to take this opportunity to defend myself by confirming the facts of the case and also that I didn't listen when you told me what I'm accused of!" - The former POTUS

[–] meco03211@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sure I've punched people, but sometimes I hurt myself so that means I'm innocent of the times I hurt others.

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[–] theostermanweekend@lemmy.ml 31 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Fucking astounds me how this grifter is pulling numbers....everyone for him is just doing it for spite now...

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 29 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

You underestimate the electoral power of making rural white folks feel like they can say the N-word without being looked down on as racist trash

These are the rat fuckers who think the president will make their families come back for thanksgiving again even though they have done no work to address that they all left because they tried to force some poor young girl onto cousin Maury with his husband right fucking there.

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[–] psivchaz@reddthat.com 10 points 1 year ago

I've definitely seen a lot of backfire effect going on. If you voted for Trump because, for example, you thought that a political outsider would fix everything and you ignored all the bad shit in hopes that it would work out, then it's hard now to admit that you were wrong. Admitting that Trump sucks is also, for those people, admitting that they were foolish to ever believe in him, which is a difficult and intolerable admission. Better to just ignore evidence and move forward blindly in support.

At least, I've seen a lot of that in my mostly purple area where the divide is only getting worse and stronger.

[–] gatelike@feddit.de 7 points 1 year ago

This free book from 1951 about mass movements explains what is going on. They feel their lives are spoiled and maga gives them hope. Logic doesn't matter.

The True Believer - Eric Hoffer https://www.academia.edu/21464682/The_True_Believer_Eric_Hoffer

[–] athos77@kbin.social 18 points 1 year ago

There was an article yesterday saying that both Trump and his lawyers are specifically trying to piss off the judge, at which point they'll use it as a point in their appeal. Oh, and his current lawyers have told him that even if the judge does try to their him in jail for contempt, they have strategies to ensure that he doesn't actually have to spend any time there. :/

[–] NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm sure that will go over great.

[–] heeplr@feddit.de 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Us mere mortals would already be in the slammer for half the stuff he's done.

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[–] autotldr@lemmings.world 10 points 1 year ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


Donald Trump was rebuked by Judge Arthur Engoron for giving “speeches” during his testimony on Monday before New York court in a civil fraud trial that will determine the future of his business empire.

“Some of your answers have not been in response to the question,” Engoron told Trump earlier in his testimony, adding that prosecuting attorney Kevin Wallace had been “very patient.”

“Getting ready to head to the Downtown Lower Manhattan Courthouse to testify in one of the many cases that were instigated and brought by my POLITICAL OPPONENT, Crooked Joe Biden, through agencies and surrogates, for purposes of ELECTION INTERFERENCE,” Trump wrote.

“Got a really Biased, Nasty, Club controlled, but often overturned, Judge, a Racist, Evil, and Corrupt Attorney General,” he added.” A dark day for our Country.

The former president has already been fined twice, and threatened with jail time, for violating a gag order put in place by Engoron after he attacked one of the judge’s clerks on social media.

On Friday, Engoron expanded the order, which barred the former president from publicly commenting on members of the court’s staff, to include similar restrictions on the statements of Trump’s attorneys.


The original article contains 858 words, the summary contains 194 words. Saved 77%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

[–] KpntAutismus@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

the american justice system right now: i can't wait for the final sentence

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