Tim Walz: a fake progressive sent to rescue the sinking Democratic Party. (lemmygrad.ml)

submitted 1 month ago by SovietReporter@lemmygrad.ml to c/agitprop@hexbear.net

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cross-posted from: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/5309499

After Biden's meltdown, the Democrats are hoping to reenergize people with a supposedly "progressive" pick for Kamala Harris' running mate.

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[-] Chronicon@hexbear.net 46 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

yep, that's walz. He's one of the better dems in the country, or to put it another way, he's a spineless liberal bootlicker.

Anyone who thinks Harris/Walz is an improvement for palestine is almost certainly wrong. Domestic issues idk, sure, maybe a bit better than crime bill author/student debt lover joe biden, but not meaningfully different besides just not being a 100% obvious bloodless ghoul on an interpersonal level (which doesn't matter materially even if it is true).

His entire claim to fame besides coining the "weird" thing (which honestly could have been fabricated intentionally), is not somehow cocking up or vetoing the one halfway productive session of the MN legislature that's happened in the last few years (2023). Dem majorities in all branches of MN government, still compromised with republicans a bunch and then failed to get a bonding bill passed in '24 leaving a bunch of critical projects unfunded

[-] Frank@hexbear.net 41 points 1 month ago

Walz mobilized the entire MN national guard to crush the 20 uprising.

That should be everything the left, PoC, anyone who thinks fascism is bad needs to know.

[-] Chronicon@hexbear.net 36 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

what drives me crazy is how many people, if pushed, will admit they think it was a good thing. That it was more important to "restore order" by cracking down hard than it was to actually do anything about all the racist police murders happening all the time.

[-] ComradePlatypus@hexbear.net 32 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Which makes Walz a good choice for the Democrats and winning sadly. The dictatorship of the bourgeois wins no matter what.

[-] Frank@hexbear.net 31 points 1 month ago

Yeah. He's proven that he'll actually send in troops when they're at risk of losing control or anything good might happen.

[-] YEP@hexbear.net 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Have you like deluded yourself you were about to lead a revolution? You are non stop posting about the national guard cracking down. You live in the American police state that's what happens. I don't think walz is some based hero or some dumbass shit he is just a compromise. I just don't understand the point you are even trying to make.

Edit: I don't mean to come off agro if I did

[-] Chronicon@hexbear.net 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

that's a pretty aggro comment yeah. If you have people who think they are leftists saying "hey this walz guy actually seems pretty good", throwing his piggishness and nature as a class traitor, in their faces is a good and normal response, and leading with personal experience is normal as well. A temporary loss of state control resulting in "something good" happening doesn't require a full on revolution. Minneapolis could have done a lot better than "well we convicted the piggies in this one incident and utterly refused to reform in any other way", and part of what stopped the momentum there was the national guard crackdown.

Frankly if you weren't there why shit on a random comrade online about it? Nobody thought that was gonna be it for america, but there were ambitions to take it further.

[-] YEP@hexbear.net 2 points 1 month ago

I really don't think I'm trying to shit on them I apologized bc Im a hexbear poster, I come off as condescending when I don't mean to be.

My objection is the non stop pooping on people that are celebrating the Dems not picking aipacs favorite in Shapiro or some demon like buttigeg.

I'm not saying walz is breaking the mold of an American politician on this stuff, it is actually just a fresh of breath of fresh air compared to the zealotry of Biden and Trump and w/e. Like I pushed for walz among my lib friends who like people like buttigeg and shapiro bc their political media diet is like seeing a soundbite of a bog standard dem being like "isn't crazy?". I'm not voting for them, I kinda like that they picked someone who didn't really compromise on things like lgbt legislation when he had a super slim majority as governor. I like that he was RELATIVELY dovish in Congress, voted against intervention in syria and against us aiding Saudis in Yemen ect. I'm not delusional and thing he is a brave anti imperialist. it literally the best that can happen in the imperial core.

It just feels like people are projecting everything that comes with living in the imperial core onto him. Please tell me if I'm off base.

[-] Chronicon@hexbear.net 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Walz is good for the dems electorally but that isn't necessarily good for the left. I think you are still a little too optimistic on Walz. Most of his accomplishments as governor are simply "he didn't veto a good thing the legislature did". Some things he actually championed and should get partial credit for but most not so much. "literally the best that can happen in the imperial core" is a huge stretch as well. In the current exact moment with the support of the DNC? sure maybe. But we need to be getting people to think outside the DNC not giving them a 50% more palatable ghoul to root for.

I assume you know all this but I think its probably important to not buy into the hype cycle around Walz.

[-] YEP@hexbear.net 1 points 1 month ago

I thing your misreading my pessimism for America as optimism of walz. Shit is dire we are commiting genocide in broad daylight. I had never been more doomer than I was before Biden dropped out for context.

On his record as governor this is gonna prob come off as dumb wonk shit. Like you can point to his lt governor pushing him left but like he is championing these things publicly everywhere rather than shying away like every other dem. Look at Shapiro fighting his own party on things like school privatisation. I don't really see any evidence he doesn't believe this stuff. Even if he doesn't believe it I think we should be pushing his selection bc he can beade to compromise. I think the biggest reason to shit on lesser evil voting is the lesser evil in America is always someone who can't be pushed, it's useless. Walz, who will be president of a split Senate if the Dems can hold onto their 50 seats, I, yea maybe optimistic w/e, looks like he can be pushed.

On a more general sense the Dems not picking someone on the far right of the part is just such a shock to me personally idk.

[-] BelieveRevolt@hexbear.net 22 points 1 month ago

We just had someone come over from .ml to Hexbear to say that a few days ago while claiming to be a leftist wtf

[-] Chronicon@hexbear.net 23 points 1 month ago

many such cases

[-] sloth@hexbear.net 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I would rather have an outside force come in and restore order than letting two sides that hate each other escalate. I feel if Chauvin had been arrested sooner it would not have gotten to the point it did, but I'm not sure the Governor can just issue an arrest warrant and send the Marshals or whatever. Of course he could have done more with police reform, but I think he was up for re-election in ~~2020~~ 2022. It's politics or something.

[-] Chronicon@hexbear.net 4 points 1 month ago

I would rather have an outside force come in and restore order than letting two sides that hate each other escalate.

LIB

[-] sloth@hexbear.net 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Ya'll right, it's a fair cop. dennis

[-] Frank@hexbear.net 3 points 1 month ago

we were winning

[-] sloth@hexbear.net 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Sure it wasn't a great response, however I could argue the NG actually were less violent and more restrained than the police would have been. Some of the NG were sincerely worried about killing people, not sure how many cops had that apprehension.

[-] sloth@hexbear.net 8 points 1 month ago

who would you rather have as a VP nominee?

[-] ElChapoDeChapo@hexbear.net 22 points 1 month ago

AOC, she did what the unions wanted

Do you disagree?

[-] sloth@hexbear.net 1 points 1 month ago

That would be an amazing team. Do you think they would win this election?

Out of everyone considered I think Walz is the strongest choice. They were obviously going to pick a "normal white guy" for the same reasons Biden picked Kamala.

[-] nat_turner_overdrive@hexbear.net 17 points 1 month ago

Xi jin ping

[-] ClimateChangeAnxiety@hexbear.net 11 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Rashida Tlaib, the only anti-genocide politician

[-] EllenKelly@hexbear.net 32 points 1 month ago

I really like the PSL propaganda, very aesthetic

[-] TyMan210@hexbear.net 15 points 1 month ago

I think it shows how well they do it that I don't even need to see their logo or anything to know it's PSL. Just the font alone is enough a lot of the time

[-] autismdragon@hexbear.net 31 points 1 month ago

I disagree. He's not fake progressive. He's a real progressive. Progressivism is the left side of liberalism and progressives often do bad things. Its fine to call things what they are. Just because "progressive" has positive connotations doesn't mean we can just, be communists and say that progressivism is insufficient. We're communists, not progressives.

[-] EelBolshevikism@hexbear.net 25 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

"Progressive" gives an implication that they'd have strong (or at least the appearance of strong) but still liberal belief in at least superficial non-hitlerite ideas, and violently suppressing protestors during the George Floyd protests is a pretty obvious hitlerite move. Most liberals and "progressives" believe they were "tOo vIoLent" though and those actions got forgotten anyways, so that checks out with liberalism/progressivism.

But he can't even pretend to be a non-hitlerite, he could be a "real" (as in successfully giving the appearance of being a human being) progressive but having an outright pro-Israel stance makes that impossible. He's faking being a faker

[-] HamManBad@hexbear.net 18 points 1 month ago

American progressives have always been imperialist. Historically they supported eugenics. He's not mislabeled at all, in fact today's progressives are much less rabid than the ones from the Teddy Roosevelt era

[-] autismdragon@hexbear.net 17 points 1 month ago

I disagree that "progressives" cant be pro-Israel because social democrats in imperial core nations will always support imperialism. There were two people in all of congress who were consistent on Israel and one of them just got primaried. And I'm pretty sure they still stumbled on other questions related to imperialism. Like I said, progressivism isnt actually good, and the main way its not good is that "progressives" will support imperialism while supporting progressive policies domestically. For me, he fits the bill of what I expect of an American "progressive", its just that progressivism isnt actually good lol. Almost all of us here are former progressive socdems so I think some of us still have an interest in keeping the label "pure" but we dont actually have to do that really. We're communists, we left that behind. Social imperialists can have the label lol.

[-] ClimateChangeAnxiety@hexbear.net 16 points 1 month ago

~~Social Democracy~~ Progressivism is objectively the moderate wing of fascism

stalin-smokin

[-] shath@hexbear.net 19 points 1 month ago

please-wake-up

[-] PKMKII@hexbear.net 14 points 1 month ago

At some level I think the most damning thing is that he supported pay-as-you-go fiscal policies while in Congress. He could soften up on all three of these issues, throw major bones to unions, Palestinians, and the black liberation movement, the well would still be fundamentally poisoned as he believes neoliberal economics underpins it all.

[-] sloth@hexbear.net 7 points 1 month ago

who would you rather have as a VP nominee?

[-] TheDeed@hexbear.net 27 points 1 month ago

Hilary Clinton

[-] sloth@hexbear.net 23 points 1 month ago

contextphobic

[-] ClimateChangeAnxiety@hexbear.net 13 points 1 month ago

Rashida Tlaib, the only non-genocide politician

Or fuck, someone who doesn’t hold elected office and is anti-genocide. Pick like, the leader of Jewish Voice for Peace or something like that. The VP pick doesn’t have to be a current politician, it can be literally anyone.

Like 80% of the people on this website are eligible and have better positions than Tim Walz

[-] sloth@hexbear.net 1 points 1 month ago

I don't disagree, those options would produce better results. Do you think they would win an election though?

From what I've seen Walz is the most pro-palestine candidate they considered.

[-] ClimateChangeAnxiety@hexbear.net 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I think a ham sandwich with a small bit of mold on the corner could win this election. Donald Trump is the most beatable presidential candidate in a generation. I’m pretty sure Shillary and Genocide Joe were some of the only people on earth who could lose to Trump.

The only demographic that will lose the Dems this election is people pissed about the genocide. Picking Stephanie Fox (Director of JVP), for example, combined with calling for Biden to stop weapon sales would convince the one demographic they need to bring back.

I do still think picking Walz was both a strategically sound choice and not the most evil thing the Dems could’ve done. If they wanted to lose and be the most evil while doing it they would’ve chosen Josh Shapiro.

Also isn’t it fucking crazy that serving in a foreign military doesn’t disqualify you from being president? It should disqualify you from any elected office, from president down to school board.

[-] sloth@hexbear.net 1 points 1 month ago

I still agree with you. The problem is there isn't a VP that guarantees a ceasefire, Kamala is still the 'president'. Thank god it wasn't Shapiro.

[-] ClimateChangeAnxiety@hexbear.net 3 points 1 month ago

Oh 100% I was saying if they wanted to actually guarantee that constituency they need to pick an anti-Israel VP and Kamala has to do a 180, the VP pick just helps solidify it