Paid apps: no problem. If it's good, I'll pay.
Subscription: maybe, if it's worth it.
Ads: F-Droid can fuck right off. If they do that, they'd be a miserable bunch of sellouts.
this post was submitted on 11 Aug 2024
195 points (97.6% liked)
Android
17690 readers
40 users here now
The new home of /r/Android on Lemmy and the Fediverse!
Android news, reviews, tips, and discussions about rooting, tutorials, and apps.
πUniversal Link: !android@lemdro.id
π‘Content Philosophy:
Content which benefits the community (news, rumours, and discussions) is generally allowed and is valued over content which benefits only the individual (technical questions, help buying/selling, rants, self-promotion, etc.) which will be removed if it's in violation of the rules.
Support, technical, or app related questions belong in: !askandroid@lemdro.id
For fresh communities, lemmy apps, and instance updates: !lemdroid@lemdro.id
π¬Matrix Chat
π°Our communities below
Rules
-
Stay on topic: All posts should be related to the Android OS or ecosystem.
-
No support questions, recommendation requests, rants, or bug reports: Posts must benefit the community rather than the individual. Please post to !askandroid@lemdro.id.
-
Describe images/videos, no memes: Please include a text description when sharing images or videos. Post memes to !androidmemes@lemdro.id.
-
No self-promotion spam: Active community members can post their apps if they answer any questions in the comments. Please do not post links to your own website, YouTube, blog content, or communities.
-
No reposts or rehosted content: Share only the original source of an article, unless it's not available in English or requires logging in (like Twitter). Avoid reposting the same topic from other sources.
-
No editorializing titles: You can add the author or website's name if helpful, but keep article titles unchanged.
-
No piracy or unverified APKs: Do not share links or direct people to pirated content or unverified APKs, which may contain malicious code.
-
No unauthorized polls, bots, or giveaways: Do not create polls, use bots, or organize giveaways without first contacting mods for approval.
-
No offensive or low-effort content: Don't post offensive or unhelpful content. Keep it civil and friendly!
-
No affiliate links: Posting affiliate links is not allowed.
Quick Links
Our Communities
- !askandroid@lemdro.id
- !androidmemes@lemdro.id
- !techkit@lemdro.id
- !google@lemdro.id
- !nothing@lemdro.id
- !googlepixel@lemdro.id
- !xiaomi@lemdro.id
- !sony@lemdro.id
- !samsung@lemdro.id
- !galaxywatch@lemdro.id
- !oneplus@lemdro.id
- !motorola@lemdro.id
- !meta@lemdro.id
- !apple@lemdro.id
- !microsoft@lemdro.id
- !chatgpt@lemdro.id
- !bing@lemdro.id
- !reddit@lemdro.id
Lemmy App List
Chat and More
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Yeah, as long as the payment method is FOSS, secure, and works as intended, I have no serious issue with pay-once software being introduced. There are apps from F-Droid I would pay a few dollars to use if required, and I'd be happy if it meant more and higher-quality software.
I feel like the freemium model they mention with subscriptions is just begging for F-Droid to be enshittified. F-Droid would really, really need to prove themselves with pay-once applications first for my liking before moving onto something so much more drastic.
And then ads are just a non-starter. Ads only exist to be psychologically manipulative, they're obnoxious as fuck in the present day, they're a privacy nightmare, and they're a vector for malware. I would see it as a betrayal of what F-Droid does for me, and I would actively see F-Droid as being sellouts who are only marginally better than using Aurora at that point.
There are no FOSS payment methods. In fact, you're probably lucky to find a payment processor that will handle FOSS stuff at all.
load more comments
(3 replies)
load more comments
(1 replies)
If they were talking about Privacy-Preserving Attribution like Firefox is experimenting with supporting on MDN, that would be one thing, but it doesn't sound like that's what F-Droid is talking about.
Not only are privacy and data protection founding principles for both Mobifree and F-Droid, the use of tracking-based in-app advertising poses a moral dilemma as well. If someone wants to gain access to an app, but does not have the financial means to purchase it, they can use it at a different kind of price - their user data.
F-Droid is also considering ads that contain no tracking, which removes that moral dillema, IMO:
It should be mentioned that it is possible to include in-app advertising without user tracking. However the lead conversion ratio drops dramatically, so the efficacy of this approach is not nearly as high.
That's basically what PPA is, advertising without tracking. If advertisers want to pay for it, then great.
Edit: Downvoting without responding like 
F-Droid is also considering ads that contain no tracking, which removes that moral dillema, IMO:
You assume everybody is okay with ads.
I'm not. My brainspace has been highjacked since I was a little kid by stupid advertisers. To this day, I remember ads for products that have disappeared decades ago and that I never gave a shit about at any point in my life.
Why are advertisers allowed to force their shit into my head?
I hate ads. I'm utterly intolerant of advertising. I hate the tracking and the malware that come with ads, but I hate ads even more. There are no moral ads. The advertisement industry is a despicable leech that needs to die.
If F-Droid springs this shit on me, I swear to god I'm gonna start having murderous thoughts...
load more comments
(3 replies)
The first quote is taken out of context:
Not only are privacy and data protection founding principles for both Mobifree and F-Droid, the use of tracking-based in-app advertising poses a moral dilemma as well. If someone wants to gain access to an app, but does not have the financial means to purchase it, they can use it at a different kind of price - their user data.
For me this reads as them explaining and condemning that dilemma, instead of considering it as an option for F-Droid.
Sorry, I was trying to save space, but I can see how only starting the quote in the middle of the paragraph is misleading. I edited the quote to include the context.
For me this reads as them explaining and condemning that dilemma, instead of considering it as an option for F-Droid.
IMO, it read more like acknowledging concerns around ads but not explicitly condemning it. But I'm not going to form an opinion about it until they do something, or at least make their intentions clearer.
load more comments
(6 replies)
Did you read the linked article?
load more comments
(1 replies)
pretty sure the venn diagram of f-droid users and adblocking users is such a huge overlap that this may not pay off too well.
load more comments
(3 replies)
No thank you. This is a slippery slope.
Yep, fuck that noise.
If you want devs to make apps without any monetization you're limiting the number of devs that will develop for your platform.
Free only means you only allow passion projects that people work on as a side project or only the developers rich enough to have retired already.
Nobody who is struggling to get by can spend all their time developing a free app that has 0 monetization.
So they monetize on Google Play.
If you care about breaking Google's control of Android you should cheer on another paid marketplace, especially one out of the clutches of Amazon.
If you want devs to make apps without any monetization you're limiting the number of devs that will develop for your platform.
So?
The point of fdroid is not to have evil pieces of shit injecting their apps with spyware and ads.
load more comments
(4 replies)
F-Droid is literally just a repository. Linux manages it just fine to have repo driven "store" apps.
Cryptomator is available on F-Droid but you still have to purchase a license to use it, although the dev has to maintain all the licensing and payment infrastructure which can be a roadblock for some.
load more comments
(1 replies)
What the fuck? Did F-Droid change ownership (sell out to a hedge fund or something)? Or did I somehow time-travel to April 1, or what?
Well, some members of F-Droid's central board resigned nearly a year ago, citing issues that had been ongoing for a long time prior. Statement posted to Gitlab.
I've been slowly moving my app installations over to Obtainium ever since, and have been using NeoStore for the remaining F-Droid/Izzy installations.
load more comments
(1 replies)
If it is a pay what you want model I am all for it. This would be similar to how elementary OS st
The problem with a fixed price is you have to always calibrate it according to the economy of the user's geolocation. What is cheap for a person from a developed world may be unaffordable for a third world county.
load more comments
(3 replies)
Targeted advertising is a huge no. No more of that.
Static advertising I can accept, but then who's responsible for vetting ads? I don't want scams displayed everywhere.
Devs definitely need ways to support themselves and sustain development. I've shared this screenshot from the app Secure Tether before:
I like to chip in a few bucks to my most used apps/services that are donationware, but after all the middlemen take their cut, the devs are left with peanuts. This IMO is the biggest hurdle when it comes to online monetization. A less expensive way to donate will certainly help.
Additionally, there are people who cannot or will not pay for apps, and I don't want to exclude them from being able to use an app/service they need.
Monetization like how Reddit Gold was and how Discord Nitro is are some of my favorites. Few extra perks and cosmetic features for paying users. Free users are still able to use the main product at no cost and you can gift them Gold/Nitro if they aren't able to purchase it themselves. I don't know how that would translate into an app store model though.
Ads, no, are not ok. F-droid can fuck right off if an ad appears, I'll just get apks from github
Those same apks would also include ads. What makes you think if the developer has ads on fdroid, he won't on github?
This is a good right to mention Obtanium, which is an app that basically streamlines that
I guess most won't bother to read the full post and will instead react negatively to the title. Having read the entire thing I am fine with it and would be happy to see more direct competition for the Play Store. The ad thing is only a problem if the store doesn't include a filter to easily hide ad-supported apps.
I guess most won't bother to read the full post and will instead react negatively to the title.
Exactly, it talks about ads in one paragraph of a very long post, and it's mostly to talk about all the problems that an ad revenue model has for FOSS!
Honestly people need to RTFArticle. It's talking about the result of interviews with developers on how they would prefer to be compensated, not definitive plans for what is or is not going to be allowed in F-Droid in the future.
Damn, never thought I'd live to see the enshittification of F-Droid. I definitely won't be using it anymore if this happens.
I never expected this. What a shame.
Edit: the ads part are not an acceptable add-on for me, as someone who respects privacy and foss. I don't know of a single foss payment processor (lmk if one exists). A lot of people here are saying "pay what you want", but it's that way now, with GitHub donation links; we don't need this in the fdroid app.
load more comments
(4 replies)
That'll be a big nope, thanks.
Edit: 20 years from now, FDroid will be worse than the Play store and we'll have a "new" store that functions like FDroid does currently.
But in order to create a solution that will be mainstream enough to make in-roads into the hold Big Tech has on the market
Firstly, I doubt their users asked them to be "mainstream", only their want for a piece of the app store profit pie is asking for that.
Secondly, if the only way to make in-roads on big techs hold on the market is to become just like them, then maybe they should be trying to find a better way.
F-droid is not going to beat the Play store at its own game. And it shows how naive the maintainers of F-droid are if they really believe that.
Apparently they don't understand that the F in F-Droid is for FOSS.
I'm 100% all for adding a repository with paid apps, but it's not and shouldn't be marketed as F-Droid.
Paid and FOSS are not mutually exclusive. You can always build packages yourself if you don't want to pay. A well executed implementation might allow some projects to drop or reduce their play store efforts.
load more comments
(11 replies)
The F stands for βfreeβ as in βfreedomβ, not βfree beerβ.
load more comments
(2 replies)
load more comments
(4 replies)
If they become the Play store, why wouldn't I just use the Play store?
You value Foss software which does not track?
Advertisment part not withstanding
After reading that post, this sounds mostly like a whole lot of tracking. At that point I think I'll just use the Play Store lol, it has more selection if I'm going to have the same level of privacy anyway
I'm a bit of a fence sitter on the actual issue, I love F-Droid as is and fear change, but I'll say as someone who thinks they'll release on Google Play in the general future, the thing that pisses me off most about Google Play is they have a "repetitive content policy" which disincentivizes you from releasing a full paid app and a demo app. The main issue is, I don't want my app to categorize as "in-app purchases" if the only purchase is the "unlock full version", because that doesn't distinguish my app from any unethical whale-hunting casino-for-children microtransaction apps, and I don't want my app to claim to be free if it's just a demo.
At least, from a pro-user, communicate everything clearly, perspective, I feel that Google is compelling devs to dark-pattern-by-default on this subject.
LMK if I'm wrong about any of that.
It's always about Ads...
Oh, they start off as unobtrusive; maybe a little banner that shows when the app is opening, or a written mention with a link.
But, this doesn't generate much revenue. Next the banner persists, and suddenly a video plays. Just one, just once.
Eventually you open the app to pop up banners and autoplay videos, and wonder where the app is. Every line you cross with adverts makes the next line easier to cross.
Everyone here is bummed out, but fails to see the upside.
To rival the Play Store, there needs to be an alternative package manager on Android which hosts proprietary apps.
The outcome is a decrease in Googles revenue and eases the hold they have on Android as a Play Store dependant operating system.
If F-Droid didn't step up, Epic would be the only contender to the Play Store. At least this way we know there will be some degree of democracy.
I don't even read this as allowing proprietary apps. They are investigating allowing different monetarisation methods for open source apps and building open source tooling to help with that.
load more comments
(1 replies)
Haven't used F-Droid since I started using GrapheneOS on my Pixel lol. Just use Obtainium.
If anything this would just give me suggestions on apks of paid apps to sideload for free
load more comments
(1 replies)
I'm not sure I can be as pliant as others here. Being less of an activist and more of a user of convenience, if I am making PayPal payments somebody better give me a reason why I'm not just using the same store that came in by default with my phone.
load more comments
(15 replies)
This is f*** up. I have no issues donating to my favorite apps. However what they are talking about it pure enshitification plus proprietary software
Also donations can absolutely work
https://blog.thunderbird.net/2023/05/thunderbird-is-thriving-our-2022-financial-report/
view more: next βΊ