this post was submitted on 20 Aug 2024
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Is it accurate that China has a law restricting content to fictional people and places? (hexbear.net)
submitted 2 months ago by Awoo@hexbear.net to c/games@hexbear.net
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I've heard this but can't really search for verification. Supposedly this law forces all Chinese videogames to be set in fantasy settings. Nothing in the real world.

If this law exists I argue it should be removed. It's holding their industry back from making any culturally relevant content because nothing can be set in our world, about real lives, people or places. You'll never get a Death Stranding or Metal Gear out of China while it exists. They should untether their industry so it can produce more of cultural relevance.

Can anyone verify?

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[–] RyanGosling@hexbear.net 36 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

The whole “chinese government censored skeletons” shit is false. It’s self censorship by the companies because chinese culture includes a lot of superstitions, and it would be unprofitable to offend your market. Western gamers got upset at Ubisoft for removing blood from China’s Rainbow 6 release, but the government never mandated it and it was Ubisoft’s decision lol.

You can see examples of superstitions having some influence on government decisions, though. In one video about pharmaceutical drug price negotiations, the government official insists that the company lowers the offered price because the number references death which is bad luck which may lead to people avoiding an otherwise life saving drug.

[–] buckykat@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago

I saw that video of the drug price negotiation and it seemed to me more like he was just a really good negotiator than actually superstitious

[–] BynarsAreOk@hexbear.net 25 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

I think what you heard is the western propaganda version of the real Chinese gaming content restrictions. Those restrictions are basically to do with national soverengty and history. It kind of makes sense the western propaganda took that to create a strawman that Chinese games must all be fictional. Perhaps there is some truth some devs choose this because its much easier than navigating the legal landmine of whatever the law decides is too close for comfort.

As you may be aware all games in China must be approved by the SAPP, there is a review process and only a limited number of games are approved every year. There are indeed some strict rules.

It is not easy to find these regulations in English. Here is the best translation of the infamous online game draft last year, it was retracted but it is supposed to be a consolidation of existing rules as well.

Here is the translation of that draft. See prohibited content.

Here is the current(?) 2016 edition in Chinese

Google TLArticle 25 No publication shall contain the following content:

(1) Opposing the basic principles established by the Constitution;

(2) endangering national unity, sovereignty and territorial integrity;

(3) leaking state secrets, endangering national security or damaging national honor and interests;

(4) inciting ethnic hatred or discrimination, undermining ethnic unity, or infringing on ethnic customs and habits;

(5) Propagating evil cults or superstitions;

(6) disrupting social order or undermining social stability;

(7) Promoting obscenity, gambling, violence, or instigating crime;

(8) Insulting or slandering others, or infringing upon the legitimate rights and interests of others;

(9) endangering social morality or excellent national cultural traditions;

(10) Containing other content prohibited by laws, administrative regulations or national provisions.

#2 is a pretty tough one if you want any sort of "geopolitical" game from a western perspective. The Taiwan issue is right away a no-go. Also no Paradox games.

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 14 points 2 months ago (2 children)

God these are so vague that I can see it being impossibly high risk to spend millions on a title that might be rejected.

Like... Imagine a Chinese Metal Gear going through this and ask yourself if it would get through. It wouldn't. They'd find something that "damages national honour".

The work around being "never make real world content" makes sense.

[–] BynarsAreOk@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago

I'm guessing you could make such a MG type game but it would have to almost completely ignore China and East Asian politics.

Maybe a East vs West(PDX abandoned Cold War game) could be allowed if it was stritctly from USSR/China perspective with western enemies but then again the risk you mentioned, why work on a game where you're not even allowed to make somewhat equal or a challenging opponenent.

If you want a USSR sim city i.e a cakewalk "strategy" game, you wouldn't make a grand strategy/political game?

[–] AnarchoSnowPlow@midwest.social 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Perhaps paradoxically, I like rules. Not all rules, I like very specific rules. It may seem ticky tacky but I like rules like: "it will be in violation of this noise ordinance to originate sound measured at 85 Db as measured anywhere on any adjacent property line between the hours of 9pm and 7am."

That's not to say that those kinds of rules can't be abused, but they're specific and measurable, and within a just system abuses can be remedied.

Specific rules and good faith arbitration result in a fair system to live within. Vague rules that allow for too much interpretation invite corruption.

[–] StalinIsMaiWaifu@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

The Taiwan issue is right away a no-go. Also no Paradox games.

AFAIK the only PDX game that is banned is HOI4, ~~which was also only banned because waking the tiger removed the Chinese Cores from Tibet~~

HOI4 was banned on Nov 1, 2017 for not following the previously cited law. China never had cores on Tibet so that is probably how it violated clause 2. My guess is that it was allowed beforehand because it was so niche no one noticed.

[–] RuthlessCriticism@hexbear.net 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Which is insanely a-historical incidentally.

[–] StalinIsMaiWaifu@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

~~I kinda get it, the liberation of Tibet was 1950 and the game has a hard cutoff of 1948~~

~~Granted with all the ahistorical shit they've added it + how loose some countries are with cores now it doesn't make sense why there isn't a focus to get cores~~

I double checked, Death or Dishonor came out before Waking the Tiger, China not getting a core in Tibet does not track considering the absurdity of Hungary's restore the KuK focus tree.

[–] FourteenEyes@hexbear.net 7 points 2 months ago

no Paradox games

Is that why they don't have as many haplogroup weirdos on Weibo? Fascists require maps to color in?

[–] ClimateChangeAnxiety@hexbear.net 4 points 2 months ago

Also no Paradox games.

ooooooooooooooh

[–] pooh@hexbear.net 20 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

I mean, Three Kingdoms is a real setting (though heavily mythologized) and there's tons of stuff based around that. I also just found this which is a realistic military shooter made by the People's Liberation Army: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glorious_Mission

Looks cool and we should play it some time.

EDIT: Also found one called Chinese Expeditionary Force which is a strategy game that takes place during WWII. There's also a huge number of games made in China that cover ancient China, which shouldn't be surprising given China's long and rich history. Unless there's some solid evidence in favor, I'd consider this law debunked.

[–] ashinadash@hexbear.net 14 points 2 months ago

America's Army but fuckin based

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 8 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Is Wuxia type content potentially exempted? Unofficially perhaps, as fantasy / established longterm fiction genre?

Unless there's some solid evidence in favor, I'd consider this law debunked.

Is there literally anything modern? Any strategy games? Easy genre to make. Where's Chinese rts? Chinese Civ? Chinese grand strat? Etc etc. It's all missing or at least I can't find any of it.

made by the People's Liberation Army

Ok so that's an official government project so we can't rule at that it would get exemption?

[–] pooh@hexbear.net 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Is there literally anything modern? Any strategy games?

The one I mentioned in my edit, Chinese Expeditionary Force, seems to fit the bill. The Invisible Guardian is another videos game set in WWII. My Time at Portia is a post-apocalyptic game but supposedly includes quite a bit from contemporary China. Nine Trials is another that supposed has fantasy elements but has quite a bit that comes from modern day China. I don’t know much about any of these but I was able to find them pretty quickly. I also can’t find anything on a specific law that covers modern settings/events, though I’d imagine they would be more restrictive on certain sensitive topics. Developers themselves probably self-censor quite a bit, but this isn’t unique to China. For example, it would be rare to see video games about directly about slavery/racism, red scare paranoia, etc. in the US.

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 3 points 2 months ago

I also can’t find anything on a specific law that covers modern settings/events

This comment has some good points: https://hexbear.net/comment/5280349

[–] Wertheimer@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago

For another real setting (though heavily mythologized), I just checked to see if there was a video game based on Legend of the Condor Heroes . . . and there will be! Coming soon! I've never played an MMORPG but I absolutely would for this world.

https://wuxiasociety.com/upcoming-legend-of-the-condor-heroes-game-from-netease/

[–] Frank@hexbear.net 15 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I sincerely doubt it given that romance of the three kingdoms and journey to the west are both in the real world and involve real people and like twenty of those get made every year.

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Wuxia exception as fantasy?

[–] ComradeRat@hexbear.net 13 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Idk if this is true or not, but if it's not true it should be imo

way too much 'common knowledge' of science, history, politics in the west (i've never lived outside it so idk what its like outside) is based on what people see on tv/fiction/twitter/etcetc, which is made 1. by people without expertise in the subject 2. by people aiming to entertain (and profit) more than to inform.

This creates extremely distorted views of history. It communicates outright wrong or fabricated information mixed (without distinction) with truths for extra confusion. It communicates idealist ways of thinking about history, as great man theory abounds because of literary requirements for characters and a compelling narrative. And then such media usually portrays knowledge of history as more complete/settled than it actually is, because long descriptions of theories and countertheories make sales plummet

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 8 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Socialist countries still exist in a world with an incomplete revolution and shouldn't kneecap their artistic industries from contributing to the cultural front of this fight. Maybe you're right in a post-capitalist world, but as it stands right now it just provides cultural hegemony to the US by having absolutely nothing competitive in this field.

[–] ComradeRat@hexbear.net 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

"Falsification of history" (or science, etcetc) isnt a thing I get the impression the cpc wants to support (and frankly i dont support it either, but im just one poster)

"Cultural fight on this front" cultural fights to falsify history in the name of profit-driven consumer-entertainment dont sound like things historical materialists should be engaging in. Falsifying the history we're materially analysing is a recipe for disaster. Frankly the whole idea of a "cultural battle" that can be fought, lost or won reeks of the german ideology Marx was criticising:

It was a revolution beside which the French Revolution was child’s play, a world struggle beside which the struggles of the Diadochi [successors of Alexander the Great] appear insignificant. Principles ousted one another, heroes of the mind overthrew each other with unheard-of rapidity, and in the three years 1842-45 more of the past was swept away in Germany than at other times in three centuries.

All this is supposed to have taken place in the realm of pure thought.

Certainly it is an interesting event we are dealing with: the putrescence of the absolute spirit. When the last spark of its life had failed, the various components of this caput mortuum began to decompose, entered into new combinations and formed new substances. The industrialists of philosophy, who till then had lived on the exploitation of the absolute spirit, now seized upon the new combinations. Each with all possible zeal set about retailing his apportioned share. This naturally gave rise to competition, which, to start with, was carried on in moderately staid bourgeois fashion. Later when the German market was glutted, and the commodity in spite of all efforts found no response in the world market, the business was spoiled in the usual German manner by fabricated and fictitious production, deterioration in quality, adulteration of the raw materials, falsification of labels, fictitious purchases, bill-jobbing and a credit system devoid of any real basis. The competition turned into a bitter struggle, which is now being extolled and interpreted to us as a revolution of world significance, the begetter of the most prodigious results and achievements.

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I do not think writing fiction for entertainment art is "falsifying history".

With that said, if you think it IS falsifying history then you must also admit that failure to compete in this space means giving this entire entertainment sector to the capitalists to falsify history in the way they want it with literally no counter balance.

[–] ComradeRat@hexbear.net 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I do not think writing fiction for entertainment art is "falsifying history".

If the setting is "historical" or "realistic" it is imo, bc, as I said above, you have to present history reductively, as a compelling, coherent narrative and with the unknowns smoothed out or filled in by imagination. (And all that is assuming the writer has done research into the topic—most artists dont)

The history of knowledge of druids, witches, the middle ages, the middle east and more demonstrates how distorted views can become when the tendencies of capitalist media are allowed to run rampant. Anti-indigenous racism are more serious examples of how these distortions can be harmfulm.

More general fiction outside of "historical fiction" isnt what the post is about, so idk why youre bringing it up. If theres dragons, magic, etc and it doesnt take place in "real life" people are significantly less likely to confuse stuff in it for real facts about histories or cultures.

giving this entire entertainment sector to the capitalists to falsify history in the way they want it with literally no counter balance.

As I understand it, that's a large part of why the firewall exists isnt it? So that the western created ideological products dont become the cultural mainstream?

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

If the setting is "historical" or "realistic" it is imo, bc, as I said above, you have to present history reductively

Oh man better burn Dickens or every other author that wrote fiction set in a period of history then?

This is silly.

The history of knowledge of druids, witches, the middle ages, the middle east and more demonstrates how distorted views can become when the tendencies of capitalist media are allowed to run rampant.

Anti-indigenous racism are more serious examples of how these distortions can be harmfulm.

Yes and is precisely why there should be a counterbalance to it produced out of socialist countries. Non-participation simply hands the entire sector over to them.

As I understand it, that's a large part of why the firewall exists isnt it? So that the western created ideological products dont become the cultural mainstream?

No. The firewall prevents the american tech companies from owning all the websites. The firewall allowed for Chinese companies to own the Chinese internet instead of facebook, google, twitter, etc etc. The firewall does not prevent the consumption of western artistic produce in the entertainment sector.

[–] AndJusticeForAll@hexbear.net 12 points 2 months ago

I saw a video of Chinese game studios using real cities in video games and it being encouraged for tourism or something.

[–] buckykat@hexbear.net 10 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I do not know whether this is true or not, but just because a story is set in a fantasy or sf setting absolutely does not mean it cannot be about the real world.

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 3 points 2 months ago

Sure but it either has to be in a level of abstract that it will go over heads of the average person or else I assume it will not fly with censors. No renaming America to Yankland and getting away with it I assume, given that I've literally never seen that kind of thing made over there.

[–] buh@hexbear.net 10 points 2 months ago

they can get around this with the "in minecraft" loophole