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submitted 2 months ago by Stern@lemmy.world to c/asklemmy@lemmy.world

Presume he had just ate a power pellet, of course.

Followup matchups for your consideration:

  1. Slimer, from "Ghostbusters"
  2. Sadako, from "The Ring"
  3. Freddy Krueger, from "Nightmare on Elm Street"
  4. The clown from "It"
  5. A ring wraith from "Lord of the Rings"
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[-] tal@lemmy.today 41 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

A ring wraith from "Lord of the Rings"

I don't think that those are actually ghosts.

Nine he gave to Mortal Men, proud and great, and so ensnared them. Long ago they fell under the dominion of the One, and they became Ringwraiths, shadows under his great Shadow, his most terrible servants.

https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/233663/in-the-lord-of-the-rings-are-the-ringwraiths-really-alive

The Nazgûl are quite the enigma in Tolkien's Legendarium. They are spoken about in a multitude of ways and things are kept rather ambiguous. A few things are however clear. The Nazgûl have not died, meaning they hadn't followed the path of Men who die (separation of fëa from hröa and the spirit going to the Halls of Mandos before departing from the circles of the world). The clearest description is that they had faded:

A mortal, Frodo, who keeps one of the Great Rings, does not die, but he does not grow or obtain more life, he merely continues, until at last every minute is a weariness. And if he often uses the Ring to make himself invisible, he fades: he becomes in the end invisible permanently, and walks in the twilight under the eye of the dark power that rules the Rings. Yes, sooner or later — later, if he is strong or well-meaning to begin with, but neither strength nor good purpose will last — sooner or later the dark power will devour him.
The Fellowship of the Ring, Book 1, Chapter 2: The Shadow of the Past

The Nazgûl were no longer fully incarnate. The physical body of the Nazgûl no longer existed in any form that could be perceived by Mortals. Their lives had been stretched so thin — or as Bilbo put it, butter over so much bread — that their presence in the physical world had all but vanished existing only when clothed by their Master. While clothed they have form in the physical sense, which can be perceived but not seen by mortals. They can speak, smell, see, ride, etc. but as soon as they are uncloaked they become invisible to most, bar those who have a presence in the unseen realm, the "other side", such as Galadriel, Gandalf or Frodo while wearing the Ring.

The use of the word wraith seems to have caused confusion, being deemed to mean that they must be dead; however, the word wraith can also mean an immaterial or spectral appearance of a living being (OED), or a wisp or faint trace of something. However, its use along with other terms such as undead is the cause of significant confusion. The Nazgûl are not like the dead men of Dunharrow, or the barrow wights, for they have not died and weren't just spirits like the other two, unhoused but unable to leave for the Halls of Mandos. The Nazgûl retained some form of physicality or flesh:

So passed the sword of the Barrow-downs, work of Westernesse. But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dúnedain were young, and chief among their foes was the dread realm of Angmar and its sorcerer king. No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will.
The Return of the King - Book 5 - Chapter 6 - The Battle of Pelennor Fields

The physicality of the Nazgûl seems to be heavily dependent on the spells that kept the hidden fibres of their body attached to their will. This alongside the cloaks Sauron clothed them in seemed to allow them to have a presence and interact with the physical world, without which they would be hidden to all but those on the other side.

Finally we look at a word from Tolkien on the longevity of creatures and the lure of Sauron. Through "counterfeit 'immortality'" Sauron was able to trick Men into become the wraiths that were his chief servants. The description as their lives being long or a feigned immortality suggest again that they hadn't died and had their spirit unhoused, they were still attached to their mortal flesh it had just degraded to an unrecognisable artefact.

Longevity or counterfeit 'immortality' (true immortality is beyond Eä) is the chief bait of Sauron — it leads the small to a Gollum, and the great to a Ringwraith.
Letters 286

As for why he's called the Necromancer, that is covered by an excellent answer to this question: Why is Sauron called "the Necromancer"?

[-] swab148@lemm.ee 18 points 2 months ago
[-] tal@lemmy.today 28 points 2 months ago

Well...see, you'd think that, but then there's another aspect to this. Pac-Man also eats pellets. I can't find any similar authoritative-looking online analysis of whether-or-not the Nazgûl are pellets.

[-] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago

Definitely found Stephen Colbert's Lemmy Account.

Tagged as such

[-] pelya@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

They are clearly not pellet-shaped, since they need arms to carry weapons.

[-] EvilBit@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

An eel is a fish that isn’t fish-shaped.

[-] pelya@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago
[-] EvilBit@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

They’re not definitively not pellets.

[-] klemptor@startrek.website 1 points 2 months ago
[-] Susaga@sh.itjust.works 24 points 2 months ago

Consider how eating the power pellets turns the ghosts blue, and how the ghosts regain their original colour when they respawn, even within the power pellet timer. The natural conclusion is that the pellets don't change pacman, but change the ghosts.

As such, unless the power pellets affect ALL ghosts the same way they affect the pacman ghosts, pacman could not eat any ghost other than the pacman ghosts.

[-] Stern@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago

The natural conclusion is that the pellets don't change pacman, but change the ghosts.

The power pellets only affect ghosts after said pellets are eaten by Pac-Man, as the ghosts can float over pellets without issue. Thus I think its a safe assumption that making the ghosts material form edible one time, temporarily is a result of Pac-Man's magnified power rather then the pellet itself.

As such, unless the power pellets affect ALL ghosts the same way they affect the pacman ghosts...

Hence the question.

[-] Susaga@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 months ago

While the ghosts don't activate the pellets, they also don't eat the regular pellets. They interact with nothing but Pacman, the only living thing to be found. Even if they could, the only effect is to weaken the ghosts, so they have no reason to.

If the pellet changed Pacman, it makes no sense that he could eat one ghost and not another. And yet, when a ghost respawns, Pacman is unable to eat that one, even as he manages to eat the others. The change has to be within the ghosts, reverting with time or with resurrection.

As such, we have no reason to believe Pacman can eat any ghost unless that ghost reacts to the power pellet. Whether those ghosts react to a power pellet? Insufficient data for meaningful answer.

[-] Stern@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

Even if they could, the only effect is to weaken the ghosts, so they have no reason to.

But, this establishes that the pellets have to be acted upon by an outside force to affect the ghosts. It might also be reasonable to assume that this action may be exclusive to the Pac family.

If the pellet changed Pacman, it makes no sense that he could eat one ghost and not another. And yet, when a ghost respawns, Pacman is unable to eat that one, even as he manages to eat the others.

It makes sense if the usage of the power pellet allows Pac-Man to affect the ghosts material form temporarily.

I like to imagine a situation where Pac-Man set off a paint bomb in a room covering everyones clothes with blue paint that makes those clothes edible. He eats a dudes now blue shirt, dude freaks out, goes home, changes his shirt and comes back. Everyone else still has edible shirts but not dude. Maybe someone else goes to the bathroom and washes off the paint on their shirt after a bit under the faucet. Their shirt is also no longer edible.

Whether those ghosts react to a power pellet? Insufficient data for meaningful answer.

Good thing you're not submitting this to a journal for peer review then. ;)

[-] ripcord@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

I love this conversation so much.

[-] fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.com 2 points 2 months ago

That is a big assumption. Are there any Pacman games with different types of ghosts?

[-] tal@lemmy.today 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pac-Man_video_games

There are apparently 63 Pac-Man games, not counting compilations of games, non-game Pac-Man software, non-Pac-Man games where Pac-Man merely is present as a character (like Street Fighter X Tekken), and never-completed Pac-Man games.

That's a pretty expansive amount of software to dig through.

[-] peopleproblems@lemmy.world 15 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

This is grade AA, top tier shitpost which means over analyzing is my specialty.

First I read it as "Ghost of Chris Pratt" and the answer is yes, it would be a normal ghost.

Then I read it correctly as Ghost of Christmas Past, and my answer is - maybe, but the ghost is able to bring the victim into events of their past lives, I think he could take Pac-Man back to a time where he ate a ghost that he didn't realize what he had done, make him regret eating ghosts and prevent the ghost of Christmas past from being eaten at all.

  1. Slimer - yes, regular ghost, just messy and he'll need a napkin.
  2. Do you mean Samara? Or is this a different The Ring. If Samara - yes, seems to follow the same rules as the ghosts in Pac-Man.
  3. Yes, he could, but that would imply Pac-man sleeps and dreams. If he doesn't do those things how will he interact with Freddy pointy hands?
  4. No. The clown from "It" is an established demon, not a deceased person bound to this world.
  5. No. The ring wraiths are a weird kind of undead in that they are multiplaner and still both men yet their bodies no longer exist in our plane, yet have some sort of magic clothing that gives them form in our world. Essentially they didn't die, so they aren't ghosts.

Over analyzing shitposts is my specialty

[-] Stern@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago

Do you mean Samara? Or is this a different The Ring.

We can both be right on this one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadako_Yamamura

Sadako Yamamura (山村 貞子, Yamamura Sadako), reimagined as Park Eun-seo (Korean: 박은서) and Samara Morgan for their respective adaptations, is the main antagonist of Koji Suzuki's Ring novel series and the film franchise of the same name.

[-] peopleproblems@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

Oooooo neat!

[-] 30p87@feddit.org 11 points 2 months ago
sudo pacman -Rns ghost-of-christmas-past
[-] stupidcasey@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

NEXT TIME ON DEATH BATTLE!!

[-] Professorozone@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

What silliness. Of course it can only eat the real ghosts, Christmas past and Slimer. I mean puhlease.

[-] Stern@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Freddy feels more ghosty or at least vengeful spirity (which really is just deluxe ghost imo) to me considering he was a dude who died and lacks physical form most of the time.

Sadako is described as having the appearance of a Yurei, which is analguous to a ghost in western culture. If your only condition for Pac chomping is "can be reasonably described as a ghost" then she's deffo there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadako_Yamamura#Appearance

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y%C5%ABrei

It and Ring Wraiths are admittedly further down the occult scale but when I posted I figured heck, lets see what arguments folks got for 'em.

[-] Professorozone@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

Yeah, but Freddy can kill people. Most ghosts can barely move things. Just a little slime and some rattling chains.

[-] Stern@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

Sadako can kill people as well. Pac's ghosts kill him too.

[-] MadBob@feddit.nl 3 points 2 months ago

I think Pac-Man could certainly eat the ghost at the feast, because when he's had a pellet and there's a ghost about, it's always a feast.

[-] Professorozone@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

Listen...I have spoken. I realize this is an important topic so just trust me. I'm kind of an expert.

[-] AndrewZabar@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

Could Pac-Man or Ms. Pac-Man eat Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington aka Nearly Headless Nick?

[-] JohnnyCanuck@lemmy.ca 0 points 2 months ago

Presume he had just ate a power pellet, of course.

Unfortunately this assumption is problematic.

The answer is "no" because power pellets don't exist. Sorry OP.

[-] ripcord@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Neither does Pac-man, or ghosts. Gosh!

[-] JohnnyCanuck@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 months ago

I mean, that was the joke, but I guess it didn't work...

[-] AndrewZabar@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

Classic whoosh moment lol.

this post was submitted on 25 Aug 2024
83 points (90.3% liked)

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