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Hungry 9 (lemmy.likes.cat)
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[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 4 points 6 days ago

This kind of feels like how I constantly get the "which word/shape/number (etc.) in this series is incorrect" questions on tests wrong. I severely overthink it. "Well, these four all have chloroplasts and this other one gains energy from photosynthesis via a symbiotic relationship with another organism, so it must be that one."

*Gets test back*

"Oh, it was the one that didn't live in a rain forest."

[-] paddirn@lemmy.world 3 points 6 days ago

I think that third one down is actually how they’re teaching it at my kids’ schools now. It’s called “making a 10” I think, basically that same idea, add up to 10 first, then do the rest.

Common core made an effort to teach kids to think about numbers this way and people flipped the fuck out because that wasn't how they were taught. Still mad about that.

[-] kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world 41 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

The problem with common core math was not that they taught these techniques. It's that they taught exclusively these techniques. These techniques are born from the meta manipulation of the numbers which comes when you have an understanding of the logic of arithmetic and see the patterns and how they can be manipulated. You need to understand why you can you "borrow" 1 from the 7 or the 9 to the other number and get the same answer, for example. It makes arithmetic easier for those who do it, yes, but only because we understand why you are doing it that way.

When you just teach the meta manipulation, the technique, without the reason, you are teaching a process that has no foundation. The smarter kids may learn to understand the foundational logic from that, but many will only memorize the rules they are taught without that understanding of why and then struggle to build more knowledge without that foundation later.

Math is a subject where each successive lesson is built on the previous lessons. Without being solid on your understanding, it is a house of cards waiting to fall.

[-] Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 20 points 1 week ago

To add to this, people come up with math tricks all the time but you then have to check it against the manual method, and often multiple times with different numbers, before you can connect the manual process to the trick for later use.

In my opinion I don't think you can teach just the trick side of it, if thats what common core is.

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[-] alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

There's ~~people~~aliens who would add 9+7 instead of 10+6 or 8+8 in their heads?

[-] Albbi@lemmy.ca 17 points 1 week ago

I do, because 9 plus anything is just a 1 in front of the other digit minus 1.

Weirdly enough, I just thought about using the methods here for the first time in my life earlier today. Weird.

[-] Skates@feddit.nl 11 points 1 week ago

9 plus anything is just a 1 in front of the other digit minus 1

This is also how it works in my head, but isn't it the same as the other guy was saying, 10+6?

[-] stankmut@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago

The difference would just be how you think of the process. I sometimes shuffle around the numbers to make math easier, but the shortcut for adding 9s just feels different. Instead of 9+7 = 10 + 6, it's more like 9+7 = 17-1. It feels less like solving it with math and more like using a cool trick, since you didn't really use addition to solve the addition problem.

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[-] smeg@feddit.uk 64 points 1 week ago

Mental arithmetic is all little tricks and shortcuts. If the answer is right then there's no wrong way to do it, and maths is one of the few places where answers are right or wrong with no damn maybes!

[-] taladar@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 week ago

Well, there are certainly wrong ways to arrive at the answer, e.g. calculating 2+2 by multiplying both numbers still gets you 4 but that is the wrong way to get there. That doesn't apply to any of the methods in the post though.

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[-] Visstix@lemmy.world 52 points 1 week ago

What does adhd have to do with anything?

[-] Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 week ago

ADHD is sometimes used as a catchall to mean a set of behaviors that does not coincide with the majority at school or work. Ive met a bunch of people on ADHD medicine, but it was usually because they wanted to force themselves to be good at or like something they didnt want to do normally.

In this case its called ADHD because the student has found their own way to solve it despite the method the teacher is teaching and that the rest of the class uses.

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[-] net00@lemm.ee 13 points 1 week ago

Nothing, it has become quite common to say ADHD causes every little odd behavior. I'm not sure if all those people are even actually diagnosed and not just lying for internet points...

I assume people with actual ADHD find it offensive their condition is made fun of by "quirky" idiots online.

[-] WillFord27@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Yep. Just because you do something in a nonsensical, stupid way doesn't mean you have ADHD or that is what someone with ADHD would do. People with ADHD are also "intellectual."

For me, this is how I'd solve 9+7:

Day 1: Fuck it, I'll do it tomorrow

Day 2: Alright gotta do that problem now! Just gonna eat and take a walk to prepare my mind

Day 3: okay for real this time

Day 4: staring intently at problem for half an hour before getting incredibly inspired to do anything else

Day 5: anxiety

Day 6: paralyzed but anxiety

Day 7: Either I actually try to do it and it takes 30 seconds or I give up entirely and flunk the class

Not "hehe quirky look at me I'm so stupid because my brain does things differently, ur so smart I wish I was like you and not so dumb! x3"

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[-] SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 38 points 1 week ago

Has nothing to do with ADHD.

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[-] tehmics@lemmy.world 31 points 1 week ago

I would have done 10+6, but that's effectively the same thing as the OP.

Aside from literally counting, what other way is there to arrive at 16? You either memorize it, batch the numbers into something else you have memorized, or you count.

Am I missing some obvious 'natural' way?

[-] Floey@lemm.ee 12 points 1 week ago

I'd argue memorizing it is the natural way, at least if you work with numbers a lot. Think about how a typist can type a seven letter word faster than a string of seven random characters. Is that not good proof that we have pathways in our brain that short circuit simpler procedural steps?

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[-] HorseRabbit@lemmy.sdf.org 30 points 1 week ago
[-] JackbyDev@programming.dev 8 points 6 days ago

Yeah, this has nothing to do with ADHD.

[-] Femcowboy@lemm.ee 21 points 1 week ago

The "ADHD way" is literally what they are teaching in school.

[-] PM_Your_Nudes_Please@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Yup, this is what parents are complaining about when they say math has changed. Before, math was primarily about rote memorization. You just memorized that 9+7 is 16. There were multiplication tables you were expected to memorize and regurgitate ad nauseam. Sure you could count it out on your fingers, but that only works for numbers under 11. For anything above that, you just referred to your memorized addition, subtraction, multiplication, or division tables. But this also meant that numbers outside of those tables were really difficult to do in your head, because you were poorly equipped to actually calculate them out.

Common core math is attempting to make math easier to do in your head, by teaching the concepts (rather than promoting rote memorization) and helping students learn shortcuts to avoid getting lost. 9+7 is 16, but it’s also 10+6 or 8*2, which are much easier to visualize in your head without counting on your fingers.

[-] JackbyDev@programming.dev 3 points 6 days ago

Yep, and what happens is that when kids need help they can't explain the "new" way from the beginning and only half remember stuff which is extremely confusing to hear as a parent so then the parents get mad at the method.

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[-] blind3rdeye@lemm.ee 19 points 1 week ago

Why are these posts always shitting on teachers? I don't know what teachers you're seeing, but I've never seen any teacher of any subject / age-group ever discourage anyone for thinking about something a different way. Quite the contrary, different ways of approaching problems are always encouraged.

[-] IzzyScissor@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago

My math teacher (at a private school) was just a random students' mom. She had no higher degree and only taught the book. If you got the right answer by using a method not included in the book, it was marked half-credit because she didn't understand and wasn't interested in hearing your logic, because "that's not what the book says".

Being taught by people who have no drive for knowledge and just want to teach the standardized test answers SUCKS.

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[-] Reddfugee42@lemmy.world 17 points 1 week ago

You're old school, like me. You're literally describing the "new math" that boomers hate. Teachers are finally teaching kids to do it the way we've always done it in our head.

"8 + 7 is awkward, but if you take two from seven and give it to eight, now you have 10 + 5 and that's easy mental math."

[-] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 17 points 1 week ago

And the reason they teach it that way is because it’s what the people who are good at math were already doing. Math isn’t about memorization it’s about understanding how numbers work and that’s how numbers work

[-] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

If your teacher gets mad about breaking an addition problem into easier problems, then that teacher should be fired. Phony tale.

[-] frezik@midwest.social 15 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

If anything, these are exactly the techniques that "New Math" was supposed to teach. Your brain doesn't work math the same way as a computer. People who are good at math tend to break the whole thing down into simple pieces like this. New Math was developed by studying what they did and then teaching that to everyone.

I tend to add 9 to things by bumping the tens digit up by one (7 becomes 17) and then subtracting 1 (17 becomes 16).

Most of the arguments against New Math tended to prove the point; our mathematical education was in dire need of fixing.

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[-] Zannsolo@lemmy.world 16 points 1 week ago

No no no 10+7 = 17 and 9 is always one less so 16

[-] edgemaster72@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago

Let's make that 9 a 10 because it's good enough, it's smart enough, and goshdarnit people like it. Also, I don't wanna add with a 9. So 10 + 7 would be 17, but we added 1 to the 9 to make it 10 so now we take 1 away, 17 - 1 = 16.

ezpz

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[-] dharmacurious@slrpnk.net 12 points 1 week ago

Whatever number is closest to 10 steals enough to make itself 10. Same goes for hundreds, thousands, whatever. Get your round numbers first, add in the others later. All numbers must become 10. In a pinch, a number may become a 5, but if so, it's really just become a half-10, and it should feel bad about itself that isn't a full 10 yet.

[-] NerdyPopRocks@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago

The second method is very chemistry-like. I do that too naturally

[-] Fatticus@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago

I thought that too, 9 is like a halogen, it wants to resolve to 10 anyway it can like fluorine wants one last electron. So allow the 9 to rip one off of the neighboring numbers and then perform the calculation.

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[-] AgentGrimstone@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago

10 is just easier for me to work with so...

9+1=10 10+7=17 17-1=16

[-] RangerJosie@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago

It took me 3 years to pass HS algebra because the coaches/part-time math teachers didn't like the way I solved problems. I got the right answers. But the way I got them was wrong apparently.

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