1) Be nice and; have fun
Doxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them
2) All posts must end with a '?'
This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?
3) No spam
Please do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.
4) NSFW is okay, within reason
Just remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either !asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world or !asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com.
NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].
5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions.
If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.
6) No US Politics.
Please don't post about current US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world or !askusa@discuss.online
Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.
Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu
Compared to USB-A, not really that much of a game changer (it’s still the most common for me). Though I do not miss the three rotations to get it in.
Compared to Micro-USB? Holy fuck, I almost refuse to buy anything still using Micro-USB ported now. Mainly because I can’t never find the fucking cable for it.
I think the real game changer here is the USB-PD. I now only bring a single charger for both my laptop and my phone. Also, a lot of different laptops now charge with USB-C, getting rid of the need of different plugs.
Props to the Thinkpad USB-C retrofit hack. Granted they only work with 65w, but it is still great! My Anker Nano GaN charger is only a little bit larger than an ice cube, definitely smaller than most traditional USB charger, yet it packs 65w.
What does GaN stand for in that context?
Galium Nitride. It makes high current DC stuff more efficient (i.e. generates less heat) and requires less circuitry (i.e. smaller devices).
Fucking awesome, it is. When I travel, I take 1 laptop power cord. Charges my phone, laptop, Switch, and backup battery. (The backup battery’s output ports are USB-A, but it’s got a lil converter cable that stays in the lil bag that the backup battery is stored in.)
It's the best. So much so that not having usb c, has become a deciding factor if i buy something or not. It also seems a bit of a quality insurance, even if it's just a little. But electronics with micro or even mini usb is usually just some cheap shit or that old and they are still selling it.
Usbc-pd is an absolute game changer as an off grid person. The fact a 100w charger can act as a dc to dc converter with up to five output voltages, at up to 100 watts is crazy. And that the protocol automatically detects and communicates the proper voltage is very convinent. The problem is that usbc-pd 100w chargers are expensive and you need to know what you are doing if you want to diy power appliances with it.
Its really nice to have a standardized cable that just works and can be plugged in both ways. We really are approaching a Universaal Cable after a quarter century of RnD.
I'm curious as to what exactly you do with it as an off-grid person, and what you mean by DC-to-DC converter.
Im happy to explain pastermil. So first off let's talk power.
Electrical Power Systems
Most off-grid electrical systems have a few major components.
A device that generates electrical energy
A battery that stores excess electrical energy for later
A charge controller which regulates the incoming raw electrical power from the generator as it charges up the battery, and smooths out the battery energy output
A power distribution interface which allows for connecting appliances to the batteries in a safe standardized way.
My particular electric system has a 200w 28v solar panel for power generation, two 20ah lifepo4 batteries connected to double capacitance, and the charge controller doubles as a very basic interface with two usba slots and a car cigarette port.
AC vs DC
Now let's talk about AC and DC. Theres essentially two kinds of electrical power people deal with.
The difference between Alternating Current and Direct Current is in the way the power flows. Direct current moves in a straight path. Alternating current moves power back and forth in three perfectly spaced cycles.
AC The one most people are more familiar with is AC power. it comes to your home from power plants through power lines and transformer boxes. You move around extension cords and plug the three prong outlets into a wall.
Alternating Current (three phase) power is very easy to transmit long distance however its very high voltage. So only certain power hungry devices like kitchen appliances, washing machines, dryers and AC compressors use it directly. Most of your consumer home devices need to convert AV power down into more manageable DC power.
DC Offgrid electrical systems with batteries are Direct Current by nature. All your power comes from the battery banks. The power moves straight from battery terminal negative to positive. It flows right through your appliances in one way out the other.
The battery banks tend to be arranged into 12v, 24v, or 48v depending on the systems power draw and transmission needs.
The popular standards for delivering direct current are:
5v 2.4a usb (15 watts)
12v 10a car cigarette plugs (120 watts, can be rated to supply 24v fused 15a I believe though not common at all)
circular dc barrel plug connectors, the most common size is 5.5mmx2.5mm but there are dozens if not hundreds of slightly different barrel plugs. Part of what makes usb so great is reducing arbitrary manufacturing complexity like this.
usbc-pd various voltages depending on charger, cable, and device at up to 100w for current protocol.
solar quick connects tend to be for connecting and transmitting high voltage DC power to charge controllers and power banks. Its worth mentioning but not that relevant to what were talking about.
Most consumer devices in your home dont actually use wall outlet AC power directly, it uses wall power thats been converted and stepped down to DC power.
Desktop computer power supplies, Laptops, monitors, vaporizers, led lights, DVD players, audio speakers, your phone. everything that can powered by usb and batteries. Everything that has barrel plug inputs and power bricks plugging into it.
If you look closely on the power bricks plugged into the appliance you'll see that it has an input and output voltage rating. The input tends to be 120vac here in america 240v over the pond, and the output tends to be either 5v, 9v, 12v, 15v or 20v DC usually up to 5 amps.
Device vs Voltage Examples
Laptops and computer monitors tend to be 20v, fast charging smart phones and the Nintendo switch docked are 15v, very bright home LED lights can be bought that are powered at 12v directly, the ps2 could be powered with 9v, and most usb devices charge at standard 5v. Would you like to guess which voltage profiles the USBC-PD protocol is capable of? Its all of them.
Energy Conversion Efficency Losses
Now let's discuss energy efficiency. Converting from AC to DC eats up some of your power. So does converting from DC to AC. And its not small losses either, each time you convert its about a 15% total loss in efficency.
This loss through conversion doesn't matter when you pay cents on a kilowatt and have unlimited power at the tap. It adds up very quickly when you have a limited power supply and every watt hour counts.
Let's say I want to power a laptop on my offgrid DC system and my only means of powering it is the AC power brick cable that it came with. I would need to:
Add these up and you get 30-40% of your power eaten away by this needless double converting. Wouldnt it be really nice if we could convert the battery DC voltage directly to the appliance DC voltage without those power hungry inverters and transformers?
What DC-to-DC Converters Are
Thats where dc to dc converters come in. They can convert one DC voltage to another. They still introduce efficency loss but way way less only 10% total.
Traditionally you would hope your device had a commercially available 3rd party travel adapter for 12v car batteries. The dc to dc converter is built in and uses car plug.
If you were SOL you has to wire up boost converters to raise up voltage and add resistors in series to lower it. You ever try to wire and solder your own circuts before? Its a tedious experience. Imagine doing that for each device voltage. Oh wait, you dont have to. Here's what that looks like.
A USBC-pd 100w charger that plugs into a cigarette port or is built into a power bank can convert a batteries 12vDC into 5v, 9v, 12v 15v, and 20v dynamically depending on the device.
Do you know how magical that is? How much trouble that saves when it comes to mcguyvering a DC appliance that only came with AC cable to supply proper power directly? All I need is a 10$ usbc-pd to barrel plug cable that manually selects the voltage needed and some barrel plug adapter bits to fit into the appliance. Energy efficent and simple wiring. All the dynamic controller stuff is abstracted away in a safe way. Powerful enough to deliver 100 watts of power, and its going to be more powerful over time.
Hi! You seem knowledgeable about this stuff, so if you can answer a question. I have an older Jackery power station that has a single USB-C PD port. I need more when camping and I have been plugging a AC USB-C charger into one of the AC ports on the power station. From what you wrote that make me think that is not an efficient way due to the conversion from DC to AC to DC. Would I be better off using the DC “Car Charger” port or maybe a USB-C hub of some sort?
Hey there panicnow! I would be happy to help give some input. It is better to avoid firing up the AC inverter whenever possible. If you have a car travel adapter for your devices that plug into the jackeries cigarette plug port that would be better. If you absolutely need more usbc-pd ports for your devices, there is a way to do that given your jackary has one or two of those circular barrel plug outputs that output 12v. Most powersttions should have one or two of them.
If you have one of those barrel plug inputs youre in luck. Go on amazon and buy one of these to turn those jacks into car cigarette plug inputs.
Then get a really nice usbc-pd car charger. I don't actually have one but I like anker and trust their 100w pd charger would be high quality. You can go cheaper if you only need 65w or lower.
Thanks so much! I was kind of on that line after I read your earlier comment, but thought I would just ask. My jackery doesn’t have barrel plug outputs—just inputs. But it does have a 12V, 10A cigarette plug port. I’ll get an anker car charger like you suggested and use that.
So far it's a mess.
I still have Micro USB devices, so I need two cables or USB-C→Micro USB adapter.
I have PCs without USB-C ports, so another adapter needed USB-C → USB-A.
But, I can now "dock" my new-ish laptop with only one USB-C ↔ USB-C cable to a monitor.
Monitor gives power.
Not at all, its slightly more convenient.
If all cables were created equal then it's kind of a big deal that laptops can now charge via USB-C. Proprietary chargers can suck my ass.
It’s been more of a pain in the arse than initially expected.
Most motherboards (for example) only have 2-4 USB-C ports, meaning that I still need to employ A-C and C-C cables for peripherals etc.
My main gripe is that the standard just tries to do too many things without clear delineation/markings:
Is it a USB 2.0 (480Mbit), 5Gbit, 10Gbit or 20Gbit cable? Can’t really tell from the plug alone.
More importantly, for charging devices: How the heck do I determine maximum wattage I can run?
For all its faults, at least the blue colour of a USB-3.0 plug (or additional connectors for B/Micro) made it easy to differentiate !
Now I’m eyeing up a USB Cable tester just to validate and catalogue my growing collection! 🤦🏻♂️
I wonder about this too. Can I plug my laptop's USB-C charger into my phone? Or is that a big nono
Yes, you can. The charger and the device communicate between one another what they can support, and pick the highest one they both agree on.
E.G. my laptop charger can charge at full speed (100W) for my MacBook, but only at 20W for my iPhone.
That bit is pretty straightforward and transparent to end users (there are a few rare conditions where devices might not agree on the fastest, and have to fall back to a slower one); the issue is more with cables not having sufficient gauge wire, or missing connections that prevent the charger and device from communicating their full functionality.
Should be okay, that USB-PD would detect the correct voltage and current.
A big one. No more brittle micro usb, which would eventually become loose and start falling out when charging. Being able to charge my laptop using my phone charger is also good.
Works great, rarely have issues with the port breaking unlike prior small usb standards, it's nice how ubiquitous it is so I have way less random cable connectors around.
With a laptop and phone which both can use it my backpack while travelling is so much lighter and less bulky. For me it absolutely was a game changer, I just don't like that I need to carry a USB a to C adapter for all the legacy USB A ports.
So much harder to solder, making repairing my stuff more difficult :(
Also, a USB cable is no longer a USB cable. Now I have to guess what the rated wattage was, if it's power only/data only/mixed.
All in all, a step back in my opinion.
Its convenient and superior to Micro. But mostly its just nice that both mine ans my wife's phone uses the same cord.
Last week I found out that there are off-brand batteries for my DSLR cameras that can be charged directly through USB-C so I don't have to pack a different charger for every camera. Let that sink in!
Overall pretty great, in a pinch I can charge my laptop on a Nintendo Switch power supply. Now if I could just upgrade the last few remaining Micro-USB and Lightning devices without spending a fortune...
Really hasn't been much of one. I still own devices that charge from MicroUSB, a lot of peripherals are still USB-A, there hasn't been any significant movement by the industry overall to move everything to C, so mostly it means I just need to carry more cables.
Like others, USB-PD is amazing. My monitor has 90W which is plenty for my laptops. Gaming laptop, not so much. The only device I have that isn't USBC/Thunderbolt is the damn mouse. I rarely ever need a USB A port for anything other than charging. Even my flash drives are all USBC.
I have been able to use 1 charger for almost everything for several years now. Sometimes I have a finicky device that doesn't like the high wattage PD chargers and will only trickle charge, but work fine with my other smaller charger. The GaN chargers are nice and compact. I break USBC cables a lot less often, but that is because I am a walking disaster most of the time. I would break micro USB cables constantly, or rip the ports to pieces.
One note though on USBC ports on a monitor. Beware using the really really stiff cables on ports that are positioned where the cable would be parallel to the table instead of the port pointing down. That port will definitely wear out or break entirely from the constant downward force and lack of support of the cable in the port. This is especially true if you use a monitor arm and the cable gets moved. Seen this on both Samsung and LG. My Dell points downward. I really like the pro PS5 controllers as it comes with a little cage that holds the USBC cable in place and protects the port from exactly that scenario. These monitors absolutely need something like that, especially with how expensive they are.
Not as much as going from coax to RJ45, or from PATA to SATA, or from PC/AT to PS/2 to USB or Bluetooth, or from D-SUB to DVI to HDMI or Display port, or from the old serial and parallel ports to USB or Bluetooth (I mainly skipped SCSI), and I sort of miss having to turn the connector 360° around for it to fit...
I went through all of these, and honestly plugging in a single cable into your laptop and having power, external display, network and input peripherals all connect instantly is pretty damn cool.
I was pretty fucking disappointed how flimsy the jacks are.
I've had 3 phones and a laptop I had to replace because the USB-C jack started to wiggle and wouldn't connect anymore.
Is it the jack itself that’s wiggling, or the plug won’t stay in the socket and wiggles too much?
If it’s the latter, take a staple and bend it straight, and VERY GENTLY drag it round inside the port, avoiding contacts, scraping out the lint and dust that has almost certainly become impacted at the base of it over time. I do this whenever cables don’t want to stay in anymore and it’s amazing how much of a difference it makes.
I have had one example of the port itself becoming loose, but mostly I’ve run into the lint/dust problem.
It's nice that my phone charges quickly, but otherwise I don't notice. It's just one more cable type I need to search for.
Not at all a game changer, for me.
I mean, it's just another and one more type of cable. Sure, in theory it's simpler than many various cables and it's even less stupid than the previous USB types, but it's still a mess.
At least, for non-geek me, those cables are a mess as I need to be able to distinguish between the exact same cable to find which one is USB-C or Thunderbolt, between the various versions of USB-C itself, and then between USB-C that comes with or without power delivery, and with what power limitation? And then, despite USB-C supposedly being a standard there are still too many cables that just won't work with certain devices because reasons.
Add to that the many USB-C docks (and dongles) that work... more or less reliably and more or less as marketed (even more so under Linux, but those issues exist under Mac and under Windows as well).
Older cables and ports were cumbersome, and thick and whatever but, as far as I'm concerned, for the most part they just worked like they were supposed to. And I never had an issue knowing which cable to plug into which port as they all looked, you know, different.
Nowadays, I have to label each one of my USB-C cable with some masking tape so I can identify it in a glimpse without wasting my time trying them all one by one.
Edit: some clarifications.
It's pretty convenient. Now I can take my soldering iron and my power tool battery (with SN USB-C adaptor) and solder wherever the fuck I want
I certainly like it better, it's an improvement, but "game changer" is strong. I'm slowly replacing gadgets to USB C through attrition. The charge port has ceased to be the failure point for any of the gadgets I own. My pile of spare cables is still excessive, but moving further back in my storage closet because I need them less and less.
It changed my economy game.
Now I have to buy an USB-C to USB-A adaptor to plug USB-C stuff into my already standing devices. Honestly, no idea why didn't they make it connector-compatible. Wasn't that the entire point of the "U" in "USB"?
They really wanted to put an end to this meme.
But manufacturers wanted a micro usb replacement and this is what we got.
It was great!
I could get rid of a lot of "extra" cords. I can just keep one usb c and charge my phone, my mouse, and headphones with one cord. Shoot, I can even charge my controllers now too. I like that they're becoming like outlets. Like, this is just how you get power to the device(S). Without searching for the "right" cord all the time.
Personally, I like the iPhone charging port better as there's less that can go wrong with it, but USB-C is pretty good too.
I like that I don't have to orient the cable plug-ins just right. I can flip it over and still plug it in just fine. That's why I don't like mini USB, micro USB, or USB-A
Yeah Lightning was really nice. I was surprised how much I liked it after switching from Android to iOS. If only it weren’t proprietary and had too few pins to be very useful outside of charging.
I still hated that my phone didn’t use USB-C though, since everything else I own does. Glad the new iPhones do.
I like its reversibility and faster speeds compared to MicroUSB. Being in the USA where everyone has iPhones though, it was hard to bum chargers from other people (before the iPhone 15 anyway)
For charging, it's fine, I have equipment to do some mid level testing of how much power a USB cable can transmit, I can also verify if a charger supports quick charge and other charging protocols.
For data transfer, it's frustrating, you gotta find the cables that are not just USB2 with a USB-C connector.
Then you have thunderbolt, which is even more expensive....
Total game changer. Plug all my peripherals into my monitor. USB C from my monitor to my work laptop. After work I plug it into my home desktop. Also just having one charger and one cable for my phone, steam deck and laptop is amazing especially for work trips.
Well, for me, the selling points are:
Versus earlier versions of USB, it's reversible. This isn't a game changer, I guess, but it's definitely nice to not have to fiddle plugs around all the time.
I don't know if it's the only form of USB that does USB PD -- I'd guess not -- but in practice, it seems to be pretty strongly associated with USB PD. Having USB PD isn't essential, but it makes charging larger devices, like laptops, a lot more practical. I can lug around a power station that doesn't need to have an embedded inverter.
I still feel that it's kind of physically small and weak compared to USB A. That's an okay tradeoff for small portable devices that don't have the space for larger connectors, but I'm kinda not enthralled about it on desktop. I worry more about bending connectors (and I have bent them before).
So for me, I'd say that it's definitely nice, but not really in a game changing sense. I could do the things it can do in somewhat-worse ways prior to USB-C.
