this post was submitted on 19 Sep 2023
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At some point, getting Nintendo would be a career moment and I honestly believe a good move for both companies. It's just taking a long time for Nintendo to see that their future exists off of their own hardware. A long time.... :-)

Email chain between Phil Spencer, Chris Capossela, and Takeshi Numoto discussing the potentially hostile purchase of Nintendo, ZeniMax, WB Games, and TikTok

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[–] UrLogicFails@beehaw.org 94 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It seems like it there might be a number of updates about the FTC leak, but the notable highlights of this email from me are the plotted purchases of Nintendo and WB Games.

The way they discuss the purchase of Nintendo as if it is an inevitability and how they may need to purchase it in a hostile manner really cements to me that they are utilizing Microsoft's immense capital to obtain a gaming monopoly.

I know it is an unpopular position because of how beloved a Gamepass is, but this really solidifies how shady Xbox/ Microsoft is; and I really hope the acquisition of ActiBlizz is blocked.

[–] Adramis@beehaw.org 91 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

The ActiBlizz merger needs to be shot down and Microsoft Games needs to be forced to split off from Microsoft. This tactic of "Make all the money in one sector, then use that unlimited money to invade another sector, force small businesses out by operating at a loss, and then enshittifying the entire sector to a state worse than it was originally" has to stop - across all sectors.

If you can't survive in your own sector on your own merits without money from Daddy Corpo, you deserve to die.

I also hate that Spencer talks like "sitting on a big pile of cash" instead of gambling it on the market is fucking stupid. Classic "NOW NOW NOW" American capitalism.

[–] phillaholic@lemm.ee 25 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I get called a Sony fanboy for calling out Microsoft for being terrible for gaming. I haven’t owned a Nintendo device since N64, but I have nothing bad to say about them. They make great games.

[–] dawnerd@lemm.ee 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It’s weird calling for one mega corp to be split up while supporting another mega corp that owns more than the first. Everyone needs a reality check if they think any mega corp doesn’t want the same thing.

[–] phillaholic@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

In the context of gaming, Sony and Microsoft couldn’t be more different. I can get over Sony’s terrible store backend or refund policies. I know how they work, how to avoid pitfalls, etc. at the end of the day, they make the better games that I like to play and have shown over the course of thirty years to support gaming first.

[–] Krauerking@lemy.lol 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No no... it's the part that Sony owns a headphone company, and a TV company, and their first product was a rice cooker.

The point was that they enter a space using funds from one of their other arms to strongarm away competition and become a conglomerate that owns and operates a huge percentage of people's lives and product purchases leaving almost no breathing room for other companies to ever enter.

It's not about refund policy or their games it's about the subsidized products they can only afford by min/maxing other economic spaces they control

[–] phillaholic@lemm.ee 10 points 1 year ago

Nintendo was founded in the 1800s as a playing card company. To some extend every manufacturer started with something else. You're misrepresenting my point. Sony entered the market and competed based on actual merit. They have grown their own in-house talent, in-house IPs, and technology just like Nintendo. Microsoft almost threw in the towel in 2013. There recent moves scream Embrace, Extend, Extinguish where they don't have to worry about pesky things like making good games, but can force gamers to pay them monthly for whatever they feel like putting out, or just let third parties do the work and use their power to force them into whatever pricing Microsoft wants. People thinking GamePass is great should brush up on their history of what Microsoft does when they get the upper hand. I say this as a someone who uses a ton of Microsoft Products outside of gaming.

[–] ObiGynKenobi@beehaw.org 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Sony and Nintendo are both terrible, hypocritical companies in their own right. That by no means absolves Microsoft of being who they are, and the pro-consumer tactic Xbox has employed for the past 5 or 6 years is definitely a calculated move and the result of them falling hard after the Don Mattrick era, but to say that Microsoft (and by that I assume you mean Xbox) is terrible for gaming is a bad take. The gaming landscape is better because Xbox exists. Competition and choice empower the consumer. If you think Sony wouldn't be an even shittier company without the competition Xbox provides, you really don't understand how these avaricious corporate conglomerates operate.

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[–] ampersandrew@kbin.social 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I also hate that Spencer talks like “sitting on a big pile of cash” instead of gambling it on the market is fucking stupid.

If you're sitting on cash, you're guaranteed to lose money to inflation. If you invest it wisely, you have a good chance of beating inflation. Even in personal finance, it's very stupid to sit on a big pile of cash; everything above and beyond an emergency fund or savings for a short-term goal should be invested.

[–] Pxtl@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Honestly even the idea of an emergency fund, I mean accounting dorks say things like "save six months salary in an accessible, liquid form".

Does anybody really do that? I mean for a middle-class well-educated dual-income household that's probably close to 100k, which we were all recently reminded the limit for bank account insurance.

If you own your home doesn't it make more sense to have a secured line of credit set for emergencies and then ride as close to the wire as you feel comfortable?

[–] ampersandrew@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago

Your emergency fund is usually recommended to be 3-6 months of expenses, not salary...though I guess for plenty of people, even at high salaries, that may be the same number, but then you'll never have savings anyway. Really your emergency fund is for however much risk you can tolerate, like if you end up unemployed for 3-6 months, but your emergency fund is for things other than just unemployment, like sudden medical expenses or replacing a water heater. If you're comfortable with a line of credit on your home being your emergency fund, go for it. There's some risk to that, but there's different kinds of risk to everything.

[–] Krauerking@lemy.lol 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes, because otherwise how the fuck can I afford to move apartments when my landlord raises the price by a thousand dollars a month. But also I have no assets so it's my entire savings and I can't put it anywhere because I need it within a year.

So yeah some of us are fucked and the idea that a middle class household would make 100k in 6 months means you have no touch on reality for real wages for lots of people.

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[–] Adramis@beehaw.org 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm assuming that "big pile of cash" is their emergency fund - Spencer implies as much when he says that it serves as an impediment to buying them out.

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[–] MJBrune@beehaw.org 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Microsoft Games needs to be forced to split off from Microsoft.

That would mean Minecraft could actually be released for more than Android and Windows again. That game was on every platform then Bedrock came out and it's on 2. They even said Mac and Linux versions were coming after release and it's been years. A C++ version of the game is ideal. It runs faster, it plays better, they also integrated a marketplace and overall I like bedrock but they only did it to keep a monopoly on gaming.

That said, Game Pass is uniquely tied to Windows at this point and has very little ability to have the same protections on Mac or Linux. Windows is the only OS that can hard lock you away from your files. For better or worse. Game Pass is a neat system but also has major downfalls.

[–] IvyRaven@midwest.social 78 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Micrsoft's gaming head honchos were talking about making a monopoly. And it's clearly the goal. They don't care about gamers or games just hurting Sony (they said their main goal was to kill Playstation). The ActiBlizz acquire showed them they can buy anyone. Monopolies of any kind are bad, and this would be horrible.

[–] rwhitisissle@beehaw.org 34 points 1 year ago (4 children)

They don’t care about gamers or games

There is no such thing as a company that cares about the product they make or the people who buy their product. The purpose of every company is solely to make money. The product itself is, to some degree, arbitrary. The only reason Microsoft even makes video games is because it's adjacent, and in some ways a natural extension of, their original business.

[–] Kichae@kbin.social 18 points 1 year ago

This is especially true of publicly traded companies.

A publicly traded company's customers are it's investors, and it's product is shareholder value. Everything else they do is just the manufacturing process.

[–] TwilightVulpine@kbin.social 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Nintendo does care about making good games, or it wouldn't make all the weird moves that it does, and it wouldn't consistently output quality titles like it does. We are just so used to dispassionate money leeches controlling everything that the idea that anyone in charge cares about anything but money seems hard to believe.

Which is all the more reason why Microsoft can't be allowed to acquire it.

[–] sim_@beehaw.org 12 points 1 year ago

This is too broad of a brushstroke. Is there any megacorporation that cares about its customers? Doubt it. But are plenty of small studios that clearly value the quality of their product.

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[–] Chimaeratorian@beehaw.org 75 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I know these Chucklehead Executive Officers only exist to enrich the companies they run and by extension, themselves, but they all seem to fail to understand that running a company is not just merge and acquire. Of course that is what capitalism wants, but there is room for there to be more than five Big Names in Gaming, and a MSFT-owned Nintendo would not be what it is today. You don't become an innovator by buying the innovative companies.

Yes, Nintendo's hardware has gradually fallen "behind the times" (if you look at raw power, generationally) but guess what? A majority of people are still willing to play Mario, Zelda, and many more quality first-party titles on potatoes as long as the games are fun.

Nintendo has taken risks and made some weird crap over the years, but that is exactly what makes them different from the other two. I don't think we would have had Nintendo Switch today without the wild consumer success of the Wii and then the massive pendulum swing of the WiiU (which was tethered to the home just like that new PS5 Portal display controller). They came to market with an R&D Wii 1.5 prototype that flopped, but that sent them right back to the drawing board to rethink it, creating the Switch, which effectively merged their console and handheld divisions.

I am not a betting person, but if I was, I would be placing my chips on the card company-turned beloved video game creator that turns 134 this week, and not the American conglomerate that thinks the entire future of gaming is subscriptions and microtransactions on the third place console.

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[–] storksforlegs@beehaw.org 69 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"absorbing and destroying a unique company would be a real feather in the old cap"

[–] whofearsthenight@lemm.ee 18 points 1 year ago

I don't have a lot of specific love for any company, but Nintendo getting acquired by literally anyone would be a sad day.

[–] butterypowered@feddit.uk 48 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Microsoft were monopoly seeking/abusing pricks in the 80s/90s/00s but I had just about started to accept that maybe they had changed. Accepting open source and open standards, and competing on their merits in the gaming world.

I was wrong. They’re not as powerful as they were 20 years ago but, having seen this email, their tactics seem unchanged.

[–] jonne@infosec.pub 31 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Very telling that he wanted to do it because it seemed like a good career move personally first, as opposed to something that would somehow be a good match.

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[–] Hdcase@beehaw.org 12 points 1 year ago

Embrace, extend, extinguish. That's MS's strategy, by their own words.

[–] Kajo@beehaw.org 45 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Getting Nintendo would be a career moment for me

Who cares about your career? How could it be a justification for anything?

[–] lowleveldata@programming.dev 25 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's a justification for him personally? Tbh I wouldn't say such a cringe thing even in internal emails

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[–] BigTrout75@beehaw.org 37 points 1 year ago

And gone would be the innovation like Wii,3DS and Switch.

[–] ryannathans@lemmy.fmhy.net 32 points 1 year ago

No good could come of this

[–] bookmeat@lemm.ee 29 points 1 year ago

It's pretty awful that people like Phil define themselves by the ruin they can inflict on society.

[–] OfficialThunderbolt@beehaw.org 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How would they plan to do that? Foreign investment in Japanese companies is heavily regulated, much more than it is regulated in the Americas or Europe.

[–] Ashtear@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago

Not even that, but hostile takeovers are still exceedingly rare in Japan among domestic firms.

What buzz there is over this is just ethnocentric thinking.

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 16 points 1 year ago

This is both interesting and terrifying at the same time. I'm not much of a Nintendo fan these days, but I don't think Microsoft would really help things if they acquired them. But I also doubt Nintendo would sell... Can they be taken over hostilely (acquire them through buying a controlling number of shares)? I am not sure how that shit works if the companies are in totally different countries, even if both are publicly traded.

[–] Jimbo@yiffit.net 14 points 1 year ago

Sounds awful

I hate all these bastards. That's why I only use gentoo and play games I find in thrift stores and google drive folders.

[–] ampersandrew@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Boy would I love to see Nintendo's future in the hands of anyone except Nintendo. That's the only way their future will be off their own hardware, and probably the only way they become less of a barrier to game preservation. For those of you afraid of Microsoft absorbing Nintendo and becoming a monopoly, check the date on that e-mail and rest assured they can't get away with it anymore anyway.

[–] Tearcell@mastodon.gamedev.place 23 points 1 year ago (6 children)

@ampersandrew @UrLogicFails for better or worse Nintendo does things their own way. You can bet you'd see yearly mario kart releases if that IP belonged to anyone else, and I don't think that would be for the better.

[–] ampersandrew@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago (37 children)

Is that the worst thing you can think of? Because that sounds like more than an acceptable trade if it meant that I could legally buy a ROM of Super Metroid I could play on my Steam Deck, or if I could legally play Tears of the Kingdom on a machine that can run it at 60 FPS, or if the first F-Zero game made in 20 years wasn't a live service battle royale with an expiration date baked into the game.

[–] Tearcell@mastodon.gamedev.place 12 points 1 year ago (7 children)

@ampersandrew @UrLogicFails worst thing I could think of would be yearly bland releases barely worth playing and gutting the innovation they bring.

It's not like every release is brilliant or great (looking at you pokemon violet/scarlet), but look at what happened to Blizzard pre and post acquisition.

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[–] meiko60@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 1 year ago

everything can happened. we already have Tencent buy Key this year.

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