this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2024
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Hello comrades. In the interest of upholding our code of conduct - specifically, rule 1 (providing a friendly, safe and welcoming environment for all) - we felt it appropriate to make a statement regarding the lionization of Luigi Mangione, the alleged United Healthcare CEO shooter, also known as "The Adjuster."

In the day or so since the alleged shooter's identity became known to the public, the whole world has had the chance to dig though his personal social media accounts and attempt to decipher his political ideology and motives. What we have learned may shock you. He is not one of us. He is a "typical" American with largely incoherent, and in many cases reactionary politics. For the most part, what is remarkable about the man himself is that he chose to take out his anger on a genuine enemy of the proletariat, instead of an elementary school.

This is a situation where the art must be separated from the artist. We do not condemn the attack, but as a role model, Luigi Mangione falls short. We do not expect perfection from revolutionary figures either, but we expect a modicum of revolutionary discipline. We expect them not simply to identify an unpopular element of society hitler-detector , but to clearly illuminate the causes of oppression and the means by which they are overcome. When we canonize revolutionary figures, we are holding them up as an example to be followed.

This is where things come back to rule 1. Mangione has a long social media history bearing a spectrum of reactionary viewpoints, and interacting positively with many powerful reactionary figures. While some commenters have referred to this as "nothing malicious," by lionizing this man we effectively deem this behavior acceptable, or at the very least, safe to ignore. This is the type of tailism which opens the door to making a space unsafe for marginalized people.

We're going to be more strict on moderating posts which do little more than lionize the shooter. There is plenty to be said about the unfolding events, the remarkably positive public reaction, how public reactions to "propaganda of the deed" may have changed since the historical epoch of its conception (and how the strategic hazards might not have), and many other aspects of the news without canonizing this man specifically. We can still dance on the graves of our enemies and celebrate their rediscovered fear and vulnerability without the vulgar revisionism needed to pretend this man is some sort of example of Marxist or Anarchist practice.

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[–] CthulhusIntern@hexbear.net 37 points 1 week ago (8 children)

Serious question: Is discussing the concept of jury nullification, or even saying that the jury should be nullified in his case allowed?

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[–] imogen_underscore@hexbear.net 37 points 1 week ago (3 children)

ok i have a chart that might help us figure all this out

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[–] 2Password2Remember@hexbear.net 35 points 1 week ago

511 comments

what-the-hell

Death to America

[–] cosecantphi@hexbear.net 34 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

From the jump I was hoping in the back of my mind this guy wouldn't get caught for no other reason than he's a white, probably cishet, American man with incoherent politics, and for that reason his views outside of CEO killing were never going to be something we'd condone.

I called him our guy while he was still anonymous because he hadn't been caught yet and honestly was looking like he wasn't going to be. In that situation claiming him was the best course of action for the left, but now with his capture he's a real person and not a folk hero. And that's his fucking fault too, because he clearly decided to get caught to cash in on the fame and clout of being the CEO killer.

He did one good thing, it'll be based if it inspires others to realize we are ruled by parasites and killing them is just self defense, but he's not a communist and still likely has some despicable things to say about other marginalized groups and we can't just ignore that. This is why we say we critically support him offing the CEO and teaching the public that these parasites aren't immortal, not full support for him personally as some type of comrade.

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[–] imogen_underscore@hexbear.net 34 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

good post, thanks. i've seen some serious comments about the guy which are just flat out un-Marxist... i get its been an exciting week or so but people need to think a little more before they post.

edit to expand because this is a good a place as any i guess: i have seen many users going out of their way to downplay, dismiss, occlude, and trivialise Luigi's right-wing views. i am on board with the whole event being a good potential topic of agitation, as clearly it has shown up a lot of contradictions of our time. however, this has to go hand in hand with acknowledgement and rigorous critique of his (let's call a spade a spade) wildly bigoted opinions, and exploration of why people end up believing those things. to see people totally, intentionally neglect that aspect in favour of downplaying his opinions makes me extremely uncomfortable as a queer user of the site! it's giving class reductionist brocialism in some cases. i have been reporting those comments/posts as i see them and i am super grateful that the mods are on top of this fidel-salute

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[–] Acute_Engles@hexbear.net 34 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Fascists also hate big bankers would we praise a nazi for shooting a bank CEO?

I wouldn't, even if I'd laugh at pictures of the dead CEO as a boo from Mario.

The people who can't see why this is an issue come off as people who want this website to be just for them and not a space for all people to feel safe.

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[–] dustbunnies@hexbear.net 33 points 1 week ago (22 children)

it seems to me that there is a gulf between mods and many users regarding the expected level of political education necessary to participate on Hexbear.

the questions I answered to make an account gave me no indication that I would need to understand words like "tailism," which I came across for the first time here a few weeks ago.

feel free to excoriate me for being ignorant and a fake leftist, I guess 🤷 if I have to have the free time and mental capacity to engage meaningfully with theory to be a real leftist, then that's sad news for me but probably better for me (and you!) to learn sooner than later.

does it make me a bad comrade? probably 😞 genuinely, I am sorry. if it's any consolation to you, I used to be a voracious reader but haven't read anything for pleasure in a couple of years. I haven't put more than a couple hours here and there into self-improvement or entertainment because my extra hours and extra spoons very rarely line up. staying alive is sometimes difficult.

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[–] real@hexbear.net 33 points 1 week ago (59 children)

I’m not gonna lie, this feels incredibly deft to me. Please call me out if I’m wrong but he’s not a nazi. He seems to have fairly average 20 year old white Yale graduate politics and all the baggage that comes with that. Of course he’s not a principal end communist and of course he has reactionary takes because he’s a white guy from middle America. Why shouldn’t we critically support him? These are the fucking things that they divide us over.

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[–] imogen_underscore@hexbear.net 31 points 1 week ago (3 children)

tbh yankees are coping if they think the broader US left is in any position to use this as an opportunity to achieve anything. things are going to continue to get worse.

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[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 31 points 1 week ago

Yep, as soon as he praised the feds in the manifesto I knew something was up, sure enough he's a radlib. Is it cool that an enemy of the proletariat was killed? Yea. Is the shooter a leftist? Of course not, arguably the adventurism should have tipped everyone off to that.

[–] belligerentkitten@hexbear.net 30 points 1 week ago (3 children)

the event should have nothing to do with the shooter. the left just needs to fucking step up because we need to take action. effective action. the right effectively holding a monopoly on political violence is not a good thing like the libs act like it is. people who act like 'we' have to maintain the 'moral highground' on not using violence when our enemies do, is actively disgusting to me. its just dying the martyr because they lack the conviction to do anything.

even before this guy got caught tho i never thought he should be made into a hero. we should have no heroes. even if this guy had been a leftist, he could have been an example to others sure, but making him into a hero makes everyone else passive victims waiting to be saved.

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[–] AcidSmiley@hexbear.net 30 points 1 week ago (14 children)

Thanks for calling out this bs, was pretty disgusting to see all the tailist edgelords crawling out of the woodwork. I mean, i'm not surprised, given our incel weirdo problem or that the most vocal stans are the most consistent bad take factories on this site, but it's good to see some pushback against that.

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