You sound like an aspiring journalist. Good luck with it.
this post was submitted on 18 Dec 2024
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The sugar in the sweet tea is probably far more dangerous than its food-grade packaging
first the bag thing is not even remotely a us only thing, and second heating food in plastic is sanitary (bc that refers to cleanliness). idk what term would be best for heating food in plastic, but I do agree it should be banned.
Sous vide?
I had forgotten about that... maybe instead of banning it outright it should be restricted to plastics that are certified heating-safe. in hindsight that should've been my take from the start as it aligns much better with my political views (in this case, it matters that I believe most things should only be restricted and not banned outright, an easy example being substances like weed and alcohol).
Nobody tell them about aluminium soda cans
Not sure if you're aware, but sanitary just means that there's no microbial growth that would cause illness.
That's a separate food from plastics leeching.
That's not what the dictionary definition of sanitary is. Seriously, go look it up. According to Merriam-Webster, it first says: Of or relating to health. Plastic leaching into stuff is not healthy. No one has ever proved that it's safe. The burden of proof is always proving that something is harmful, and then it's classified as harmful. The problem is, we don't know something is harmful for decades, or longer. People literally believed that it was safe to have cocaine in Coca-Cola and that cigarettes were completely harmless. We also believe that vaping is not harmful, and that marijuana isn't harmful either. Who knows if that'll be discovered as being extremely harmful to your health in 100 years or so.
So to me personally, I don't find it sanitary to involve something in the process that you have no idea whatsoever if it affects your health or not. I would call that unsanitary.
Merriam-Webster, copied in for reference.
adjective
Of or relating to health or the protection of health.
Free from elements, such as filth or pathogens, that endanger health; hygienic.
"sanitary conditions for the preparation of food."
Of or pertaining to health; designed to secure or preserve health; relating to the preservation or restoration of health; hygienic. See the Note under sanatory.
"sanitary regulations"
See under Commission.
Of, or relating to health.
Clean and free from pathogens; hygienic.
Free from filth and pathogens.
"a sanitary washroom"
You're right, there is a usage of it to mean "healthy" in general, my bad.
However, I hope you can understand that it isn't the most common usage, and that the bulk of the definitions and usages are pathogen related. Hence me either forgetting or not having run across its more broad usage.
I'd still use a different word, but I definitely agree with your point under that usage :)
That being said, sometimes something that's not sanitary (using the general definition now) may still be the better option than something that's worse.
Which is the case here, imo.
When you're dealing with something like a soda/cola, you're very often dealing with a slightly corrosive liquid. When that's the case, you're limited in what you can use to ship and store it in. Glass, obviously, is the superior choice in terms of maximum safety for chemical exposure. It is also much more expensive to ship, and has more bulk for storage. It also has a different kind of safety issue; the extra weight and the risk of damage leading to injury rather than just a mess.
The problem is the lack of choice for patrons. We can't say "give me a glass bottle instead" and get one. It's out of the bag-in-a-box or nothing these days.
As far as comparisons to other potential chemical exposures, the ones you listed in specific are a personal choice to take in at all. Whereas sodas, people might not be aware of the fact that they're served from plastics. That doesn't negate your point, it's just an interesting distinction. The plastics in food storage is more like second hand smoke than smoking because it isn't something you can explicitly choose to engage in, and opting out is problematic.
Mind you, I'm not certain that the plastics leeched into a soda are at a high enough level to be worse than the soda itself. They're distinctly not sanitary, no matter what they're stored in. Too much sugar, too much acidity, too many colorants and flavorants that are either neutral, or haven't been excluded completely as possibly unhealthy. Just the caffeine levels in them are problematic, and the problems from the sugar levels will show up in your body years ahead of the plastics. But, again, you're choosing to drink them, but may not be aware of the plastics to opt out.
Fwiw, my household has phased out plastics entirely for anything that gets heated, and for long term storage. We just don't buy new containers as they reach end of life, and any food that comes in plastics gets moved to one of our glass or metal containers if the product is going to be sitting around for more than a week or so. Longer if it's a dried product, since leeching rates for those approaches zero in anything under years. Which is only relevant so you understand that I agree with you that there's no such thing as a totally food safe plastic.
Ya you’re being poisoned no matter where you live. Get used to it.
Soup in plastic bags is the standard in most industrial kitchens all over the world.
Especially when you heat them 'au bain marie' it's safe-ish. I don't store food in plastic containers because even food grade plastic leaches but it's generally allowed.
Based on your post let me ask you this: what would be more sanitary? Just to show this isn't a post in bad faith
A plastic bag in a metal container sounds about as sanitary as it gets. It's far better to keep the tea in a sterile bag until it's needed rather than pouring it into another, potentially contaminated, container and storing it there.
Ive seen boil in the bag food in the UK. Not really sure what the issue is.
I've seen troopies boil the foil ration bags in the hot water, and then use the hot water for tea.
And we (twitch) turned out fine.
Cooking a food in a sealed plastic bag is referred to as “Sous Vide”, and was invented in 1974 by the french. It can also be performed in a glass jar, so we definitely could remove the plastic from the equation, but there are “food safe plastics” which have been demonstrated to have no known health issues when used for this purpose.
Some plastics, like BPA or PVC, are dangerous to consume/do easily leach into food/water, but “plastic” is a very broad term that refers to a lot of different materials.
Note: microplastics are a whole different story, and we’re not really sure how bad they are for you. It is perfectly reasonable to ask the question, but society at large has essentially decided the convenience outweighs the risk, and good luck trying to avoid it in your food.
I'm willing to bet that you'll get more microplastics from the food itself (meat, plants, water) than the bag.
Maybe you should make sure this doesn't happen in other industrial countries before shitting on the US
I'd worry less about the sweet tea and more about how contaminating your laundry is given the amount of plastic microfibers washing away with the waste water. Polyester is plastic. You deliver microfiber bits of plastic into the wastewater with every load of wash. How much of that is really filtered out?
If you end up in the ER or hospital, you will have an up close and personal experience with plastic. Blood: in a plastic bag. Plasma: in a plastic bag. Platelets: in a plastic bag. IV fluids: in a plastic bag. The tubing that delivers any of those things directly into your bloodstream: plastic. The syringes used: plastic. The IVs placed in your veins: plastic, including the catheter that sits inside your vein for the duration (heated to 98 degrees). The wrappers on each individual pill: plastic. The bottles the pills originally come in: plastic. Thermometer covers: plastic. The tubing used during dialysis: plastic. Tube feeding: plastic bottle of food fed through plastic tubing directly to stomach. A chemist or engineer could detail out what type of plastic is used and whether it's a potential problem far better than I.
I question the "biodegradable" items used with seedlings. Why is the mesh from the Burpee peat pucks still fully intact in my compost pile after 4 years? Pucks baked wetly on a heating mat. Buy seedlings? Probably baking in the sun at a garden center in a cheap plastic pot.
A lot of shelf stable food is stored in plastic, and we don't know how hot or cold its getting in the trucks or warehouses before it hits store shelves.
I hate plastic like the next guy but medical setting is prolly strong use-case for plastic as it must be single use and it must be cheap... Well not in America since we pay for elite level everything like true patriots.
But you get my point, a proper medical system needs to be efficient
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Some plastics are more stable than others. That said, we are admittedly far too lackadaisical with them in general.
To answer your direct question, we do have an FDA that does a passable job with some things, salmonella outbreaks, emergency vaccine development, stuff like that. There is probably some regulatory capture at play, though, where business interests get their people appointed into oversight roles. When a full half of our government is so vocally and rabidly pro-business, this is difficult to prevent in the long run.
USA bad. Uplemmy left
Are you implying that the McDonald's in Europe don't do this either? It's extremely standard practice in the food industry and has been for a while.
Also, it's sanitary.
People pay a lot of money in fancy restaurants to have their food cooked in a plastic bag lol
Ah yes. Sous vide enters the chat
companies are very averse to lawsuits, so they will toe the line of what is legal. the FDA is supposed to maintain what is legal or not based on safety, but conservatives in this country are always trying to blur those rules for monetary gain.
that said, with regards to plastics there are many 'food-grade' plastics designed for these specific use cases.
id be curious of what other countries are more strict when it comes to the FDA. I've seen it about on-par with other 1st world nations. theres always a bit of differentiation when it gets to some specifics, but overall the US is better off than 95% of the planet.
now with the orange turd back in office, i suspect that will drop precipitously as they dismantle important organizations like the FDA and the department of education.
your ignorance of chemistry does not mean there are no standards.
Food company profits are more valuable than human life.
People on Lemmy will believe literally anything you tell them as long as you make it about a corporation or billionaire.
The example in the OP is very obviously food grade plastic, specifically engineered for those use cases
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There's also an "acceptable risk" that companies will take. Not sure about food service, but I have been in meetings where 5% of customers fucked over is considered acceptable, with the dollar figures that follow. They probably take into account the total number of lawsuits they get for poisoning people, and the cost of the impact to the bottom line via lawsuits and bad marketing versus actually fixing the issue.
For example, if 10,000 people get food poisoning a year from iced tea, probably only a small percentage of those people will trace it back to McDonald's iced tea WITH tangible proof. It might be easier to pay for those lawsuits than actually fixing the issue. They'll pass some kind of memo out, showing they addressed the issue, and then blame the store management. Nothing really changes.
"A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one."
My wife was an insurance adjuster for a major company, and that's EXACTLY how it goes.
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look up preprepared pasteurized food, it will be an eye opener. you can pop a can of campbell chunky soup and eat it cold. science is amazeballs.
Those canned soups are precooked and just need to be heated up. Well, they don't need to be heated up, as you said. That's just to make it more enjoyable.
McDonald's itself is poison.
Fun thing I learned recently: You know that pigs' feed is made with whole bags of expired bread that are ground up? It's too expensive in labor to take the bread out of the bag so they're ground up, plastic and all. You think that doesn't make it's way into the meat that we eat?
If it makes you feel any better, this happens in the UK, too.
If it makes you feel any better, this happens in the UK, too.
That did make me feel better, thanks! 😃
We do; but fuck if anyone actually follows it and the FDA is corrupt as fuck.
But also the plastic thing? We barely found out everything has micro plastics in it and don't even know how harmful it is yet. Hindsight is always 20/20.
This is a very complex and nuanced issue seeing as plastics as a class of materials can vary greatly in its manufacturing process and if any coatings are used. Some materials have varing use cases, also new materials, coatings, and process combinations are created constantly. Additionally a material might not have noticeable effects on a person for 10+ years.
The American government could pass legislation and studies could be done for both old and new materials and manufacturing process with an introduction of an approval and inspection process. However, did you know that worrying about what corporations do to Americans is "woke"?
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