Not having a heartbeat and not breathing doesn't mean you're dead. Intensive care departments are literally full of people with medically paralysed breathing muscles (i.e. not breathing) on ventilation machines. People go onto heart/lung bypass machines everyday to have heart surgery and their heart is stopped. You just need to keep oxygenated blood going around, keeping those tissues alive till you get the heart and breathing back online (this is what CPR is trying to do).

When the brain stem is dead tissue, then you're truly dead (but even then you can be kept "alive" artificially if you're already on a ventilation machine in a suitable intensive care).

[+] Dadifer@lemmy.world -10 points 2 days ago (4 children)

When your heart stops, you are considered dead no matter how viable your brain tissue is.

Source: I have pronounced many persons dead.

[–] gibmiser@lemmy.world 12 points 2 days ago

Have you considered pronouncing them based on the spelling of their names?

[–] cRazi_man@lemm.ee 7 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

The medical community has long since moved on from the cardiovascular definition of death.

UpToDate.com is about the only source I can be bothered mustering up for an internet disagreement at this time of night:

Death is an irreversible, biologic event that consists of permanent cessation of the critical functions of the organism as a whole [1]. This concept allows for survival of tissues in isolation, but it requires the loss of integrated function of various organ systems. Death of the brain therefore qualifies as death, as the brain is essential for integrating critical functions of the body. The equivalence of brain death with death is largely, although not universally, accepted [2,3]. Brain death implies the permanent absence of cerebral and brainstem functions.

Also this video seems to explain what I'm trying to say, although I'm not going to watch the whole thing at this hour and I only skimmed through it: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5IhxRSaJ74E

[–] Dadifer@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

Once upon a time, many moons ago as a resident, I was called at 2 AM by the organ donation team to call the time of death of a beautiful 21-year-old girl who had gone into a diabetic coma and never woke up. There was 20 people in the room weeping, Amazing Grace was playing; I was sweating bullets. So I stood there until her pulse stopped and called it, even though she still had PEA on the monitor. I was so nervous, I followed her into the OR to make sure she didn't wake up when they cut her.

[–] bluewing@lemm.ee 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

No it's not. It only becomes a criteria when you can no longer reasonably be sure that it can't be restarted.

Source: Retired medic that has pronounced my share of dead people AND restarted a few hearts also.

[–] Dadifer@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

This is like saying your car battery isn't dead because I'm able to jump start it.

[–] bluewing@lemm.ee 1 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

So why do we do CPR? Why do we use AEDs? Was all the CPR I have done a waste of time?

Dead means you are going to stay that way. Dead is irreversible. And until I and/or a doctor say you are dead, you are not. You are just maybe dead.

[–] Dadifer@lemmy.world 1 points 18 hours ago

Dead means dead if you don't do anything about it

[–] FiskFisk33@startrek.website 3 points 2 days ago

I know this is a definition in many places. I find it stupid and useless.