this post was submitted on 17 Nov 2023
85 points (97.8% liked)

Privacy

31886 readers
496 users here now

A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.

Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.

In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.

Some Rules

Related communities

Chat rooms

much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
k_o_t@lemmy.ml
tmpod@lemmy.pt
Yayannick@lemmy.ml
ranok@sopuli.xyz
85
Deciding between Fairphone 5 and Pixel 8 (feddit.de)
submitted 11 months ago by nottheengineer@feddit.de to c/privacy@lemmy.ml
51 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

My phone is no longer getting updates, so it's time to buy a new one. The hardware could easily last 1-2 more years but I'd have to replace the battery, which is a pain on my phone.

I'm looking for something that has long firmware support and some good privacy roms while not being worse than my current Oneplus 8 in any way. I don't care about cameras at all and I'm still mad about the missing headphone jacks, but unfortunately those don't seem to be coming back and I can survive without one.

So, the options are Fairphone 5 and Pixel 8 from what I found out. The Pixel 8 is a little small for my taste and with 256GB storage it's more expensive, but it does have grapheneOS, which I'd prefer because the app sandboxing would allow me to have peace of mind even if I have tracking apps sitting on my phone. I could use the proper play store and do IAPs without fiddling with aurora store. I use it already and it isn't great.

With the Fairphone, I'd get a replacable battery so I can buy a spare and swap instead of charging my phone. I used to do that with the good old S3 and it was great. MicroSD slot is also nice. But the ROM options are CalyxOS and /e/OS. I know Calyx has a nice firewall to keep tracking at bay and /e/OS is an LOS fork mainly focused on getting rid of google from what I know, but neither has as much protection as grapheneOS.

My main goal is to become less dependant on google while still being able to use google maps for my way to work. The traffic aware routing saves me 10 minutes every day so letting google know when I go to work is a fair deal.

So, any opinions or experiences with either? TIA

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] SimonSaysStuff@lemmy.world 35 points 11 months ago (2 children)

If privacy and security are your top priorities, which it sounds like they are, and you want a performance similar to OnePlus 8, go with the Google Pixel 8 with GrapheneOS. It's more aligned with your need for strong app sandboxing and convenient Google services integration, etc.

[–] pkill@programming.dev 7 points 11 months ago

Though beware that although good in terms of performance, features and sturdiness (as long as you encase that glass back) or camera, Pixels are not flawless in terms of plain quality. Their battery life could be better and mine loses signal from time to time. Some features like 5G might not be available at every carrier in your country as well if Google has no official distribution there.

[–] barthol5280@mas.to 1 points 11 months ago

@SimonSaysStuff @nottheengineer seconded on the Pixel + GrapheneOS

[–] wuphysics87@lemmy.ml 17 points 11 months ago

Fairphone only partners with organizations who pay living wages. I.e. their phones aren't made in a sweatshop

[–] jacktherippah@lemmy.world 16 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I'd get the Pixel because of the long, not to mention timely software updates and security patches, better hardware and GrapheneOS. If you do get the Fairphone, use DivestOS. See this comparison

[–] nottheengineer@feddit.de 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Thanks, I've been looking for a comparison like that but search engines have just gotten ridiculously bad. /e/ slacking on the webview updates is interesting and steers me away from it.

I'm leaning towards the fairphone right now because it's cheaper at 256GB and not smaller than my current phone. DivestOS looks like it does most of what grapheneOS would do for me.

[–] jacktherippah@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

Glad I could help!

[–] Sebbe@lemmy.sebbem.se 14 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I actually bought the Pixel 7A just a couple of weeks before the FP5 was announced. This was dumb but my old FP3+ was simply unusable so I really needed a replacement and I felt certain that the FP5 wouldn't have OLED. I ended up selling the Pixel to my sister who also needed a new phone and I got myself the FP5. We are both very happy.

I think it's pretty obvious that the Pixel is a "better" phone when it comes to the general experience from using it. However, I really do feel that this phone is "mine" in a way that I've never had with anything other than Fairphone. "If you can't open it, you don't own it" and all that. As soon as Lineage is released, I will install it but the stock rom is not bad.

I don't think I have the same privacy needs as you seem to have so I can't really give any advice on that front. I don't have adversaries on the nation state or even law enforcement levels so just having control over which non-FOSS is installed is enough to keep me happy.

I'm not sure if I actually answered any of your questions but I felt like my situation could mean that my opinions are still somewhat valuable. Please let me know if you have any questions I might be able to answer.

[–] thisfro@slrpnk.net 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

What was wrong with your FP3+?

[–] Sebbe@lemmy.sebbem.se 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The amount of ram was probably the main issue. Everything took forever or the apps simply crashed. Multitasking was completely out of the question as the apps were immediately killed when something else got higher priority.

[–] thisfro@slrpnk.net 2 points 11 months ago

Interesting, that barely ever happens to me. But I also don't use my phone for much tbh

[–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

bought the Pixel 7A just a couple of weeks before the FP5 was announced. This was dumb

No it wasn't. The FP5 will probably never have a decent ROM, only their proprietary stuff filled with tracking. The "fair phone" isn't that fair when it comes to privacy and software. Install GrapheneOS and enjoy a decent thing.

I don’t think I have the same privacy needs as you seem to have so I can’t really give any advice on that front. I don’t have adversaries on the nation state or even law enforcement levels so just having control over which non-FOSS is installed is enough to keep me happy.

Most people don't either. For me there two very important things: 1) knowing that if someone steals my phone they can't get to my data and 2) the phone isn't constantly snitching to someone / calling home / wasting battery on every step I take. From what I see FP's stock ROM does the opposite in both cases.

[–] thisfro@slrpnk.net 6 points 11 months ago (2 children)

LineageOS is available for every previous FP

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] TCB13@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Pixel because it supports GrapheneOS thus more secure and private.

Calyx isn't as good as GrapheneOS, they do a lot of snitching on you (including to Google and Mozilla) and they overlook critical details such as this one allowing the OS to contact 3rd parties such as Qualcomm.

[–] BearOfaTime@lemm.ee 0 points 11 months ago (2 children)

How does DivestOS compare to Graphene in your opinion?

Divest is based on Lineage, which isn't as secure as Graphene (by a significant margin), but my understanding is Divest has done some things to improve sscurity/privacy.

I realize since we're talking a Pixel here, Graphene is the security/privacy answer. I have other phones in my "support circle" that can use Lineage or Divest, and I'd like to advise people appropriately.

[–] jacktherippah@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

DivestOS is the best option for someone who already has a non-Pixel device. For a Pixel, the developer of DivestOS himself recommends GrapheneOS.

[–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

I don't have an opinion on DivestOS. Never used nor audited the thing so I can't comment.

[–] Chais@sh.itjust.works 12 points 11 months ago (1 children)

With the Fairphone you get more than just a replaceable battery. You get replaceable nearly everything. Also they do their best to ethically source the materials. In terms of ROMs there is also Iodé, also based on LOS, and if you go with a FP4 instead Ubuntu Touch.

[–] LWD@lemm.ee 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

deleted

[–] MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago

Europeans are so lucky lol.

It is true, I haven't found anything akin to sandboxes in any other ROM. However, if you contain your apps inside a workspace, that seems fairly sandboxed to me, for the most part. It is unfortunate that Google's mobiles are not as repairable.

Let us know what you end up buying. I wonder if sandboxing can be implemented in other ROMs through some modifications in the Kernel (it's Linux after all).

Cheers

[–] Templa@beehaw.org 8 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

Just wanted to share my experience as someone that just updated to a p8p with GrapheneOS.

This is the first time I install a custom ROM in a smartphone and it hasn't been easy but I'm pretty impressed so far. I installed their sandbox Google Play/Services to keep using banking apps and other apps that need it. Everytime I install an app it asks if it should have internet access permission so I can use Gboard without the need to use NetGuard.

I can limit storage scopes for every app. If I want WhatsApp to only be able to access my Downloads folder, I can. If I want to trick it saying that it has access to my contacts, I also can.

The biggest issue for me now is probably install/use things in a way that just don't throw all the OS purpose out of the window and without asking questions considering how awful people can be when they think a question is dumb.

I was a bit disappointed with the lack of microSD but I realized I probably wouldn't use it. I also had to install a custom launcher to customize icons and such.

One thing that worries me is how to setup a way to find my phone in case I lose it.

[–] Scary_le_Poo@beehaw.org 3 points 11 months ago

AirDroid. It's not free, but it's pretty good(or at least it was, years ago)

[–] mozzribo@leminal.space 1 points 11 months ago

Try Prey and/or Cerberus.

[–] Pantherina@feddit.de 1 points 11 months ago

Try shelter from fdroid

[–] Bicyclejohn@lemmy.ml 5 points 11 months ago

Depends, grapheneos is good but if you dotn want it get a fairphone

[–] toastal@lemmy.ml 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Older Sony Xperia phones support LineageOS and have a headphone jack. Normally it isn’t until their 2-warranty is up that a LineageOS build is mainlined (likely because they aren’t high volume & are expensive). I got a III recently to running LineageOS for microG (but the proprietary camera app is missing).

Be aware that the cheaper ASUS Zenfones have a headphone jack, but are nearing a year since their bootloader unlock servers “went down for maintenance”. They’ll likely never come back.

[–] markkdark@lemmy.ml 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I replaced the Pixel 6 with the Pixel 8 257gb of storage, this solved my need for an SD card, I replaced the 3.5 headphone jack with an Ibasso DC03 pro DAC for the USB C port. Since I've been using phones with custom ROMs for years (also 2x Sony with SailfishOS) I was always looking for something that would be useful for me (the best choice would be the LG V50 if it could be loaded with GOS or DivestOS). The Pixeli8 is still an expensive phone (mine bought new from another user) but I like the GrapheneOS, compact design, camera and usability, and long-term support (hopefully I'll have it for a long time). I only have FOSS applications on my profile, and my work profile contains Gplay and a few apps that I occasionally use. I have no comments, everything works as it should and I like the compact design and the camera. The keyboard is also finally FOSS, open board (fork) with swipe function. I much prefer using it than Gboard with internet blocked.

[–] sibloure@beehaw.org 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The openboard fork with the swipe function is amazing.

[–] mozzribo@leminal.space 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Where can one find it?

[–] markkdark@lemmy.ml 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Open Board fork: https://github.com/Helium314/openboard

Allow loading Glide typing library

not included in the app, as there is no compatible open source library

can be extracted from GApps packages (swypelibs), or downloaded

https://github.com/erkserkserks/openboard/tree/master/app/src/main/jniLibs/arm64-v8a

Openboard - Settings - Advanced - Load gesture typing library

[–] Undertaker@feddit.de 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Fairphone is known to have several hardware related problems, but they usually ignore or do not acknowledge them. Recently they tried to argue a hardware problem (ghost inputs) can be solved via firmware update, but of course it couldn't. Additionally you lose support for device when using custom roms (even /e/os). They only support google Android. You could buy from Murena but they can not help with hardware or firmware issues. Fairphone is very to patch their devices in terms of security.

But google is google. I would never give them money.

[–] skankhunt42@lemmy.ca 5 points 11 months ago

I've always bought used phones anyway. With eBay/kijiji/others you can request the seller to enable OEM unlocking so you know it can be done and you don't even need to boot it into android before installing GrapeneOS.

My experience, not many people are willing to do that for you. YMMV.

[–] privacybro@lemmy.ninja 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

App Sandboxes in Graphene? can someone tell me about this? is this a new feature?

[–] Templa@beehaw.org 3 points 11 months ago

It puts Google Play/Services inside a sandbox so it doesn't get any priorities and can have permissions revoked like any other app (internet access/storage scopes/etc)

[–] root@aussie.zone 3 points 11 months ago

Not what you're looking for but the Asus Zenfone 10 still has a headphone jack. I don't think you'll find a privacy oriented custom ROM for it though.

[–] pkill@programming.dev 2 points 11 months ago

Pixel has superior hardware security afaik

[–] jlow@beehaw.org 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I have a friend who (just like me) has had a FP3, we were both very happy with it. Not sure why but he needed to replace it, got the FP5 but it was to clunky for him. Replaced it with a Pixel with Graphene likes it a lot.

I'd still still perfectly happy with my FP3 running Lineage/MicroG but my SD-card slot seems to be broken and I'm running out of space. I'm getting a FP5 in about a week, let's see if it's too clunky for me as well ^__^

[–] jlow@beehaw.org 2 points 11 months ago

I don't trust e (that name 🤦‍♀️) not sure why but they pulled some weird stuff in the beginning that I can't remember and at least back when I checked years ago they shipped a weird store that got it's apps from shady apk sites which is a strange move to push on everyday consumers. I hope they changed but ...

[–] Iaitoo@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

Have you checked out /e/OS for your oneplus? They do their own version of aurora and f-droid mixed together. Works well!

[–] JeyNessuno@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Is the fairphone's battery as easily replaceable as old phones were? I'd think that would make waterproofing really difficult

[–] nottheengineer@feddit.de 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yes and it isn't rated IPX7 for that reason, just IP55. I wouldn't hold it under the faucet but it should be perfectly fine for daily use.

Fun fact: It's still entirely possible to make a phone water resistant even if it has a removable back. Samsung did it in 2014 with the S5. Glass backs are just there to make it easier to break a phone, not for any technical reason.

[–] JeyNessuno@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Ah nice. I'd have assumed it was replaceable with screws or something, not pop out and replace. This idea of having a phone and two batteries is really interesting and is definitely raising the possibilities I buy a fp5.

Edit: would be even cooler if you could charge the second battery independently.

[–] N4CHEM@lemmy.ml 1 points 11 months ago

With the Fairphone (...) the ROM options are CalyxOS and /e/OS

Don't sleep on DivestOS and iodéOS. There's more OS options for the FairPhone.

[–] bernard@lemmy.peoplever.se 1 points 11 months ago

Fairphone should provide you sufficient privacy and security and give you ethical points. I have played with many OS's. GrapheneOS is hands down the best. I have used it for years. If only it would run on a fairly built device such as Fairphone, it would be stellar.

load more comments
view more: next ›