this post was submitted on 19 Jan 2024
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Any experienced guitar players have advice on how to learn better?

I played very little in highschool and now, 15 years later, I have the urge to go back to it. I've been playing for an hour or so most days for the last month which I know isn't a lot but lets be honest, it's just for my own enjoyment, I have no illusions of being a middle aged rock star.

Anyway I was wondering if people had any advice, good resources, sheet music that isn't garbage?

In my position would you go the self taught route or is it really important to have a tutor? I'm particularly concerned about picking up bad technique and then practicing that, I feel like that was a big part of why I gave up in the first place - fucking up the same things no matter how many times I did them because I learned them wrong.

Thanks all.

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[–] TheOtherwise@hexbear.net 8 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

If you're not already usuing a metronome and formally practicing scales and picking tehcniques (as opppsed to just playing), then doing so should help you see improvement.

[–] AlkaliMarxist@hexbear.net 3 points 10 months ago

No just playing so far, but I will start to put aside some time for exercises. Thanks.

[–] IDontHavePantsOn@lemm.ee 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I can't tell you what's right or wrong but in my opinion, learn songs you like for a while. The first rule is to have fun.

Pretty much every song's chords are available online so you can start slowly by strumming along to any song. If that becomes boring or tedious for whatever reason try singing along while playing.

Try using your ear to play the melody on a single note. You shouldn't be trying to sound amazing at first, because really, even after years of playing no one feels satisfied with how they sound. You should be building your dexterity, training your ear, pushing your talent, and as always, having fun.

There's going to be a bunch of technique snobs everywhere in every community of anything. Guitar is one of those things.

After 2 years of playing I realized I was holding my pick "wrong". I re-trained myself with a "correct" technique within a week. A couple years later I found a new technique of holding the pick. Again, within a week I was able to play everything I could previously while holding the pick in a dramatically different way.

Technique is something you can pick up along the way. Yes, if you practice "proper" technique from the start you will be better off, but that's only if you continue playing. Playing in a regimented fashion where you must play "properly" often times turns people away from playing at all.

All of this depends on what you actually want to do with the guitar and what your goals are.

Is it to be able to play along with some of your favorite songs? Is there a certain skill level you want to attain? Do you want to focus on lead, or rhythm?

I, for example, wanted to play the entirity of Crazy Train. I thought that as long as I could play that, I would be happy. After I learned Crazy Train, I figured, if I could play whatever note I heard in my head I would be happy. Then it was whatever phrase or riff I was hearing in my head. Then it was jamming. My practice of learning songs, paired with some very basic dexterity exercises got me beyond what my initial goal was.

That said, a good guitar teacher being there one on one will absolutely accelerate your learning. They should be asking you a lot of these same questions and directing you accordingly. More importantly than anything though, they should be making sure you're having fun. Fun gets done. Chores get ignored.

[–] AlkaliMarxist@hexbear.net 3 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Thanks for the advice. Totally feel you on fun vs. chore and I'm very much trying to be mindful of keeping things fun.

The frustration I have with online chords/tabs is that I can find 10 different sources with 10 totally different transcriptions of the same song, and I've definitely seen some examples of badly transcribed songs where they are very hard to play and sound off when you do play them and then I've found a different version and it just sounds right with a fraction the effort. I guess it can be discouraging when you think it's your skill level that's holding you back in getting a sound or tune you like but it turns out it way your reference material. Still I know I have to kill the perfectionist in my head, because I do enjoy the experience regardless.

Really I just want to be able to reproduce some of the beautifully rhythms and cool sounds that make me love to listen to music, like singing along to a song on the radio, just projecting your love of a song out into the world. Makes it feel like it's part of you, ya know? It's not my goal to do, like, super technical lead or anything - more like just me and the guitar is enough to make music, like Neil Young or Johnny Cash - and be able to just pick up new stuff quickly so I can play what I'm passionate about.

The idea of playing all of Crazy Train is absolutely wild to me though, I would never dare to dream that big but that'd be something!

I appreciate it though, pushing through the self-doubt is gonna matter as much or more than any particular technique.

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[–] wrecker_vs_dracula@hexbear.net 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Yo I've worked part-time as a guitarist for longer than any other career I've had. I was full-time for a couple of years, but I didn't really like managing lesson schedules, participating in the gear review content mill, or even hustling gigs really. Anyway, I just want to tell you how amazing music is, and encourage you to keep participating. It's a really important facet of any culture. The more immersed you get into it, the more you will get out of it. The guitar offers a nearly unparalleled balance of versatility and portability. It's also cheap and durable. It generally can't keep up with the acoustic volume of horns or even most accordions, but it offers a nice volume level for accompanying singers without making them strain.

The fact that you played a little in high school will really help you out now. One thing I noticed when teaching adult students was that there was a big difference between those who had never played an instrument before and those who had even some piano lessons when they were kids. Something about their relationship to their hands seemed different. That isn't to say that adults shouldn't play music if they didn't start as kids. I think everybody should do it.

If you're playing for around an hour every day, then you're going to get a lot figured out quickly. My main advice would be to enjoy the process as much as possible, and to avoid worrying about the level of your abilities. I know plenty of professional musicians who have experienced depression because they judged themselves harshly, despite being capable players. There really isn't a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

In my experience, basically all free sheet music is garbage. Also most professionally prepared sheet music doesn't meet my needs. If I want a chart for a tune, the only way to get a good one is to make it myself. Your ears are always going to help you more than a chart. That is, unless you're playing classical guitar. There's a lot of great sheet music available for the classical guitar that needs little or no editing. It's been a while since I engaged with that, but I remember https://www.delcamp.net/ being a good resource for free guitar sheet music.

If I were in your position, I'd probably not get a teacher. A teacher can help you stay motivated for a while, but you will need occasions to play the guitar for yourself or with friends to keep you going in the long run. If you want to see what fingerings or techniques other players are using, there's tons of video recordings online now. Only a couple of decades ago video recordings were not easy to find, so you had to either go to shows or pay for lessons to see how people play. That's changed in a major way.

Most of the time technique will improve when it has to. If the reason you can't play something is because of the limitations of your technique, that's a pretty easy problem to identify. Finding better techniques is usually much easier than actually getting them under your fingers too. Playing exercises is great for this. Musicianship does has an element of athletics to it. Just make sure that you're actually making music most of the time, and not just running mindless drills. If the reason you can't play something is because you're hearing or reading it wrong, then you should be working on your ears instead of your fingers. If you are finding something challenging, it is important to correctly identify the nature of the challenge.

Music is really one of the greatest things about being human. It provides the occasion for us to remember our greatest poetry. It allows us to connect with our culture and our history across many generations. It accompanies our dances. It can be an endlessly complex puzzle if you want it to be. It can be a powerful form of meditation. It's also a pastime that you can keep with you into your old age. I'm really happy to hear that you're getting back into the guitar.

[–] AlkaliMarxist@hexbear.net 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Hey, thank you, both for the advice and the encouragement, your post is flat out inspiring. I've always loved music and I've definitely regretted giving up on learning to create it myself.

I have definitely noticed that my muscle memory is coming back quite quickly, I was wondering how long that stage would last though as I assume I'll reach the same level I did before at some point and it will all be new from there but I find it interesting that you've seen a noticeable difference between people who did and didn't play as a child. Of course I'm just taking it as it comes though, not comparing myself with anyone else's progress.

As far as sheet music (or tablature) this tracks with my personal experience, then as well as now. Particularly for rock music, which makes sense given it isn't exactly published by it's composers. I had thought of trying some classical, just to take advantage of the wealth of resources for it, as I figure a lot of technique will carry over. However while I'm not one who thumbs my nose at classical music, I don't have as much of a personal connection to it and I do only have access to steel string guitars. Do you think it's worth trying as a learning experience?

I have found some pretty good (IMO) song tutorials on Youtube though, as you say, seeing someone's fingering up close is extremely helpful.

I'm also interesting in the way you describe the different kind of challenges in playing. It makes a lot of sense to consider that you can be hearing or reading or understanding some music incorrectly instead of just physically playing it wrong, but I hadn't really thought about it that way. I'll definitely keep this one in mind while I'm practicing.

[–] wrecker_vs_dracula@hexbear.net 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Hey no problem. I saw your post with a guitar in my lap, so I was primed to gush a little. Regarding classical guitar, that's kind of a tough one. Classical guitar is a weird world. There's a lot about it that turns me off. The instrument has relatively low prestige in the larger classical world because it's almost never included in orchestras. And that's mostly because it isn't loud enough. There are two famous concerti that call for guitar soloists, but that's about it. So classical guitarists have their own separate little world inside the classical tradition, and they collectively kind of have a chip on their shoulder. There's a lot of dogma and politics. The technique is generally effective, but I think it's needlessly dogmatic. And they are very reluctant to view modern innovations like steel strings and electric pickups as valid within their tradition.

The body of music written or arranged for the classical guitar contains a lot of great stuff though. Classical guitar is really inspiring to listen to. Playing it is even better if you can stand to put in the work to build up a repertoire. For people that get really good at reading, they can put a new piece on the stand and let it take them on a little journey. It's like reading poetry or a short story. I never got there, but I can see the appeal. When all the notes are already picked out for you ahead of time, then everything becomes a matter of technique. So classical players are way more in-depth in the way they examine their execution. They get to be very skilled in finding the most efficient way to use their bodies to produce the correct response from their instruments.

To answer your question, I think it's worth trying if you really want to get super nerdy about technique. Or if there's some classical piece that you want to play. It's kind of a big time investment if you're just looking to build skills to transfer to other styles though. I'd say probably not if you're just trying to get into playing pop tunes with friends or whatever. It's not necessary to have some classical background to be an effective musician. But if you want to get into it, don't think that using a steel stringed instrument or playing without nails makes your interpretation any less valid. Musicians can be snobs. If you want to play a cello suite on the guitar using a pick, go right ahead. They can't stop you.

[–] AlkaliMarxist@hexbear.net 2 points 10 months ago

Hey I'm glad you did, my confidence needed the boost and getting the good replies I did totally hyped me up to play, and try some new things, today.

The idea of being able to sight read some super complex stuff and just nail it first time like the classical players can is cool and all but it sounds like a huge investment and to be honest, right now, I'd rather be playing the music that really excites me, you know? Maybe one day I'll give it a try just to experience it.

They can't stop you.

I'd like to see those nerds try!Kidding, love ya classical nerds

[–] comrade_pibb@hexbear.net 6 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I've heard good things about these online courses: https://www.justinguitar.com/guitar-lessons

I've been getting back in to guitar after a decade+ away and I'm seriously considering doing some in person lessons just to get some better technique that won't destroy my wrists

[–] AlkaliMarxist@hexbear.net 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

Heh, yeah my wrists are in pretty rough shape already from years of bad computer habits so that's something on my mind too.

The courses look interesting. Price seems pretty reasonable too. There are so many online courses though it's hard to know who's trustworthy and who's not going to give you anything you couldn't get free elsewhere. Thanks for the rec though.

[–] comrade_pibb@hexbear.net 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Yeah, so far I've been too cheap to throw any money at online stuff, so I can't fully endorse this. Just passing along a common recommendation

[–] AlkaliMarxist@hexbear.net 2 points 10 months ago

No worries, it's good to have somewhere to start rather than just googling "guitar lessons online" and sifting through the silt

[–] wrecker_vs_dracula@hexbear.net 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

You didn't mention wrist problems in your OP, so I'm going to jump in here. There's basically two principles to guitar technique when avoiding wrist injury is a goal:

  • Keep your wrists straight as much as you can. It's okay to bend your wrists sometimes, but your default playing position for both hands should keep the tendons running through your carpal tunnel straight. This is also considered good technique for typing, so you are likely familiar with it already.

  • Always use big muscles instead of little muscles when you can. The muscles in your hand are smaller than the muscles in your forearm, and the muscles in your upper arm and shoulder are even bigger than your forearm muscles. Try to mainly flex your fingers with the larger flexors in your forearm. Also use your body as a pivot point so that you can pull your fretting fingers into the neck with your upper arm muscles. This will reduce the amount of work done by the smaller muscles.

[–] AlkaliMarxist@hexbear.net 2 points 10 months ago

Thanks again.

I didn't really think of it until comrade_pibb mentioned it. It's not so bad, I'm a programmer though and I've never really taken good care of my wrists which means I get some pain and stiffness from time to time. Plus my parents both have arthritis so I should really do what I can now to keep them in good shape.

Will definitely take both these points on board.

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[–] Carguacountii@hexbear.net 6 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Hi, I would really reccomend trying 'classical' guitar, if you can afford it.

To me its analogous to learning to draw, then paint, then using software to make pictures - its fine to start anywhere, but where you start will shape your understanding of the other media and all aspects of the subject. Like 'brushes' in software are rooted in (although deviate from) brushes in oil or acrylic etc. So, if you start with the basics, you'll more easily develop a more comprehensive understanding of the subject as a whole.

Basically, acoustic (steel string) or electric guitar, with picks or strumming by hand, are not the fundamentals of guitar, but rather so-called 'fingerstyle', that is in our times most commonly using a nylon string (and some metal coated bass strings) 'classical' guitar. All other modern techniques evolve from that (and earlier, the lute I think). Of course, they have their own styles and developments and techniques, but these are not the fundamentals, they're deviations due to developments of the instrument.

Classical guitar is easier to play in some ways, beacuse the strings are softer. A pick, while it can produce complex motions with practice, is not as dextrous as your fingers (again, with practice). A lot of classical sheet music, professionally produced, is available for all levels of skill, sometimes for free because of its age. There are also a lot of styles to try, from all across Europe and European settler states, which incorporate different musical traditions. In my experience, at least where I live, its harder (but not impossible) to find adaptations from the rest of the world however (like East Asia, where they have the lap guitar/harp instead, at least traditionally).

In comparison, its very hard to find 'classic rock' music accurately transcribed, and cheaply, and also its a lot more difficult to translate such music to a single guitar without broad approximations that for me at least make it frustrating to play. That is, a lot of music from that era uses effects that are achievable with a satisfactory level of fidelity only if you have a particular type of guitar, amp, pedals, and studio, or a full band. Further, I think that 'fingerstyle' classical guitar is able to reproduce such sounds better than 'strumming' and even metal string guitars, beacuse its easier, or more achievable, to play both rythym and melody, and even more than one melody at once. The techniques that are learnt from 'fingerstyle' guitar make many techniques unique to electric or 'acoustic' guitars much easier to comprehend and pick up, I think. Also, a classical guitar using fingerstyle technique is better for adaptations from other instruments like piano, in that it can more faithfully replicate the music compared to other guitars.

Everybody learns differently to some degree, and I'm not sure my own experience would be useful to you (I'm entirely self-taught from a family with zero musical ability of any kind, can't remember any piece by heart, and I don't read sheet music and can't 'play by ear'), but if you have any specific questions I can try to answer them. Seemingly, modern guitar education doesn't anymore emphasise rigid styles or techniques or approaches, but encourages the user to develop their own approach, if it works its good. This makes sense, because everybody's hands are slightly different and also shaped by their occupations etc, so there isn't really a one-size approach possible. I wouldn't worry about picking up 'bad technique' so much, you will know its bad if its not letting you transistion fast or smoothly enough between positions, or if it hurts, or if it sounds bad and isn't getting better with practice (beyond just usual muscle development ache or calous development I mean, i.e. fixable by rest).

If you were to go down the nylon-string route, don't get the cheapest possible one as it will dissapoint, but also don't get an expensive one, I'm not sure of price conversion but I would reccomend circa Β£200-300, and to go to a small/dedicated store and ask because they usually have people working there who play and aren't (usually) trying to con you, so you can ask them and let them know that you have a budget and they, being enthusiasts, will try to help you (though some can be very snobbish, which can be a problem).

In terms of resources, tab books for guitar (even 'classical') can be expensive (but are usually of good quality, more so for 'classical' guitar, and are arranged according to experience - basic, intermediate, advanced etc), and I 'expropriated' some instead, however I will have a look and get back to you because I did also find some sites that had some for free of a reasonable quality (which I've never found for 'rock' or pop music). I will see if any of the book pirate sites have uploaded any too.

In terms of learning, as above, this might not apply to you or be useful as everyone learns differently to a degree, however;

When I was first learning, I dedicated a period of time to just practicing transitioning between chords over and over, sometimes strumming and sometimes plucking up or down (broken chords I mean), to make my fingers learn (like sports), before attempting to play any particular piece. Now, I play particular pieces I'm familiar with to warm up, and then move onto something I'm trying to learn. I don't spend a huge amount of time on one piece, but change to others if I hit a point where I'm not immediately progressing (you solve a lot of problems by sleeping on them, so I don't try overly hard on one particular thing). I started with simple pieces for begginners, but also at the same time tried more advanced ones or parts of them for some time to avoid boredom and too narrow a focus (like with sports, you practice the basics but also try cool stuff at the same time).

Now (though this is a result of previous practice), when approaching a piece I don't know (which with classical pieces is most because I don't really like listening to classical music, except some 'folk' styles of it), I start by not listening, but instead trying to go through the tab as I read it - I don't really understand beats per minute or those kind of things - I kind of infer the general idea from how the tab is laid out. I play it through (once you've practiced enough, you start to be familiar with common 'fingerings' and right-hand sequences), and identify any difficult transitions or unusual positions. Then, I break it up into parts based on that, without trying to improve the difficult parts, but get the easy parts sorted so they flow (again, ignoring for now the correct tempo). Then once that's sorted, I go to the difficult parts, and try to play the whole piece over and over, until the difficult parts are gradually sorted. Then finally, once its all somewhat smooth, I listen to the actual music online and then adjust what I was playing if there are any differences. A lot of the time, I play a piece (even a simple one) slower or faster, even to extremes, than intended, because I find it helps learning.

Playing 'fingerstyle' guitar was a lot more satisfying and rewarding, because you can reproduce melody and rhythm more easily, and I found early on that just strumming chords was a bit underwhealming and fingerstyle on acoustic is not a good way to learn it - picks are used for good reason. But then, having mostly played fingerstyle, when trying acoustic or electric, those mostly don't feel particularly difficult (with some particular styles being the exception). Transcriptions of classic rock into fingerstyle also sound much better imo than those for acoustic guitar, and sometimes than those for electric, since most rock songs have the electric do just a lead line and rely on a bass and rhythm guitar and drums for the rest.

I hope some of this helps, but I might find it easier to answer specific questions, rather than a general one if you see what I mean. Above all, don't worry about being good, or see it competatively, music is cooperative like any human pursuit, even if playing alone - like the whole 'standing on the shoulders of giants' thing you're always playing with the dead in a hopefully not morbid way - maybe its better to say playing alongside our human ancestors. Its a lifelong 'hobby' really, and like anything worthwhile it takes time and practice, but comparing progress to others (especially those in the music 'industry') won't help.

[–] AlkaliMarxist@hexbear.net 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Hey, really interesting to read your perspective. Some stuff here that's different to what other said and a bit different than my intuition, but your reasoning also totally makes sense to me. Both the lack of printed music and the fact that rock music relies on having a full band to create a full sound is something I've found frustrating in the past - even if I could play just like Paul McCartney, I still couldn't sound like the Beatles.

The idea that fingerstyle/nylon strings represents the fundamentals is something I'd have been inclined to write off as (no offence, just laying out my thought process) elitism, but I cannot deny there is truth to the idea that the guitar was, historically, designed to be played that way. There are plenty of fingerstyle players in rock that I really like and am in awe of too. I mentioned elsewhere Knopfler's riff in Money for Nothing, but I believe that's a fingerstyle riff, and playing it with pick is impossible.

Your description of how you went about learning is also helpful, particularly reducing boredom and breaking through "plateaus" with pieces.

When you say acoustic is not a good way to learn fingerstyle, is that because of the physical difficulty of playing the heavier and more abrasive strings? I am interested in learning fingerstyle in general, as you say being able to play rhythm and melody, or multiple melodies seems like a real boon, but I don't know if I want to go all the way and buy a nylon string guitar given that the kinds of sounds that inspire me to play come from the steel string.

Another question for you is how did you keep your motivation up at the beginning, playing music that (from what you say) you didn't have much existing passion for?

And yes, being a part of an social, cultural legacy of producing music - connecting us to just about every other human who ever lived - is such a cool idea. I love music and as I get older I realize I don't want to spend my whole life without making it.

So thank you for writing that up. Some stuff there I never would have thought of, stuff I'll have to mull over.

[–] Carguacountii@hexbear.net 4 points 10 months ago (14 children)

No problem!

Your first point is one reason that I'd reccomend 'fingerstyle', because I've personally found that you can play 'the beatles' with higher fidelity with one guitar using that technique, than with a pick on steel string, simply because transcriptions for fingerstyle expect you to imitate both rhythm and melody aspects - this is true of rock and pop music. You can't play Blackbird by strumming chords and have it sound good enough that you want to play it, and while you can't get the exact studio sound from one guitar, you can get a lot closer with 'fingerstyle'. Even duets, like Dire Straits Sultans of Swing (I think is two guitars I might have the wrong one) can be somewhat accurately produced on one guitar with fingerstyle, compared to the alternative. Of course, it will always have the usual 'nylon string' sound, but again, starting from nylon means you can fingerstyle on acoustic (for limited periods at least before it hurts too much). In the case of songs that are just chords, you can with fingerstyle technique turn them into something more complex and interesting. I've found that singers find being accompanied by fingerstyle somewhat easier too, since it often gives better note and timing cues/calibrations, compared to multi-note rhythm chords.

I see what you mean about elitism, I should clarify my terms - while the nylon string guitar is called 'classical', really I don't mean 'classical' music, there is a huge range of music that isn't 18th/19th century orchestral pieces that is commonly played on nylon strings, such as Spanish, Portuguese, Balkans, Greek, Irish, and so on, more kind of 'folk' music, not so much the conservatoire of the European elites. And even with traditionally 'classical' in the common sense of the term, theres a fair amount like the Baroque period, or Bach for example, written for Lute (which is very close to nylon string guitar). And also, as I mentioned, replicating piano or even violin and wind instrument pieces is easier with fingerstyle than with a pick. Its more accurate to describe it as 'fingerstyle', and I do think that broadly speaking its a more versatile method than using a pick and an acoustic or electric, since those are recent inventions and we've been using 'fingerstyle' for a lot longer.

Yes, I mean the 'acoustic' strings exactly, they're harder, but also a nylon stringed guitar has the strings and frets placed further apart (to accomodate fingers rather than a narrower pick), and there are some other differences in the neck and other pieces, all of which are tailored to the style. You can play fingerstyle on an acoustic but it tends to be harder not being built for the style - although I would be surprised if you couldn't find acoustics built with that style in mind, since electric guitars vary in string placement for styles, though I haven't looked. I understand not wanting to buy another guitar, but it will be more challenging to learn fingerstyle without a nylon string. However, there are players who produce very complex results with picks, it isn't necessarily such a barrier, or combinations of picks and thumb (for the bass line), and also finger attachments you can buy that are essentially plastic nails so that you can pick on a steel string (though again, string placement will make this more difficult even with such picks, and it also is a style in and of itself to learn).

In terms of keeping up motivation, I acquired a wide range of different materials, including transcriptions of music styles that I was a lot more into, but also including those that I wasn't so into in terms of listening, so that if I got too bored I could switch to an entire different style. I'd reccomend (again, budget permitting) getting materials for jazz, pop, rock, folk (of differrent kinds and traditions, like Spanish, Samba etc etc), classical 'elite', and so on, becasue 'variety is the spice of life' and it both helps you improve and keeps interest up, and even a favourite song will get tedious if its all you know or play. I also didn't treat it like a kind of structured or targeted thing (some of my favourite songs I can't play on guitar, because I can't find good transcriptions or because a single guitar just can't replicate them), or give myself particular goals or times, but that does work for some people. Its sort of different enjoying listening to something vs playing it sucecssfully - sort of like if you hate watching golf and even the idea of it, you'd still be pleased with yourself if you learnt how to get a hole in one or whatever its called. Or even if you hate soccer, but you learnt how to do a backflip kick and score with it. Or if you find sculpture fundamentally boring, but learnt to produce a lifelike bronze horse or something. I suppose I'm interested in the process/mechanics/technique, so that I don't mind so much what the aesthetics of the result is - I'll happily play songs that I would never listen to, as long as they have something interesting about the arrangement that isn't just strumming three chords if you see what I mean. But then I don't sing, which I think is where it becomes fine to just strum chords, because you've got two instruments so it can be more complex.

I think fingerstyle helped me keep up motivation, because of the wider array and complexity of the techniques being learned, compared to strumming which I started with but was hard to keep interest in, like I said because its harder to reproduce music satisfactorily, and also because there is a limit (to a degree, there are advanced techniques like rhythm flamenco too) to learning once you've got rythm guitar nailed.

Music is a very good pursuit for your whole life, since you get better with age, compared to lots of sports where you inevitably decline to the point where it becomes somewhat pointless. The best players I've seen have been completely outside the music industry (either elite or pop), playing traditional music in street cafes, and have always been very old, just playing with friends.

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[–] macabrett@hexbear.net 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I got two lessons like 15 years ago and then scrambled the rest of my knowledge together by playing with other musicians and trying to write music like the music I like. I think I'd be a better guitar player if I had more lessons, but I still have fun with it.

I think what you do kinda depends on what you want to get out of it. Do you want to write music? Might be worth it to have lessons. Maybe learn piano for music theory purposes (can get a lot of cheap keyboards these days).

If you just want to play other people's songs? You can probably get by following some youtube lessons and winging it from there.

Also sort of depends on the genres of music you're most interested in. I like a lot of punk/folk, so I tended towards rhythm guitar with fairly simple chord progressions. I might have bad techniques, but it doesn't matter much for the music I play. If you want to play a more technical style of guitar, lessons can help a lot there and technique becomes incredibly important.

[–] AlkaliMarxist@hexbear.net 3 points 10 months ago

I've never had much of an desire to write my own music, but I have heard that piano (keyboard) is the easiest path to understanding music theory. I'd just like to be able to play other people's songs though, maybe have some improvisational skills to be able to jam with other hobbyists but that's about it.

Maybe I'll look as some lessons, even if just to get a feel for what they offer. I want to mostly play classic rock and it can be a technically challenging genre. I definitely get the impression that there isn't really a wrong way to learn though, just ways that are more or less suited to what you want to do.

Thanks.

[–] Dalek@hexbear.net 5 points 10 months ago (3 children)

I've played guitar off and on for 30 or so years. Started when I was 17. Got a cheap strat copy and later an acoustic and bass. Guitar lessons are great if you can afford them. In some places tutors have quality related affiliations that will let you know the tutor knows what they're actually doing.

However there are tons of free tutorials on youtube.

What you need to do is ask yourself what you want to achieve. Tutorials are great if there is an end objective (eg join a band, write some music). What instrument do you wish to play - classical guitar? Steel string acoustic? Electric guitar? Buying used will save you a shitload of money if you dont currently have a guitar, though taking it to a good shop to get it set up will help.

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[–] Sinistar@hexbear.net 5 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Man, I should break out my guitar too. It's been years.

Anyway last time I played it I found that the game Rocksmith was great at getting me to play more. There's a community that makes custom songs for the game, everything from The Ramones to the Sonic Adventure soundtrack is out there. It turns your practice into a game and it has tools like breaking down specific sections of a song and slowing it down to practice tough parts. It won't teach you a whole lot of music theory but it'll work out your fingers and very quickly give you a repertoire that you can mildly impress other people with, which is fun.

It does require you to have an electric guitar and a way to send its audio directly to your PC. The USB cable that the game came with works fine but I got an audio interface (this one specifically) which worked better and as a bonus let me record really clean audio for myself when I was messing around with that.

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[–] Melina@hexbear.net 5 points 10 months ago (3 children)

I never liked β€œthis machine kills fascists” on a guitar because it’s not a machine it’s a fucking guitar. It’s an instrument β€œthis guitar kills fascists” or β€œthis instrument kills fascists” is better than a machine.

[–] AlkaliMarxist@hexbear.net 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

When I was grabbing the image I saw an article that explained the backstory and Guthrie first saw the phrase painted on a lathe in a weapons factory in NY during WW2.

The article posited that the point was that the folk revival was something that came out of and was shaped by modern, industrial society, rather than being a traditionalist movement that longed for some idealist vision of an agrarian past. Not a rejection of modernity but a fusing of modernity with more human centric values. I dunno, I think it's cool even if it doesn't make literal sense.

[–] 7bicycles@hexbear.net 3 points 10 months ago

It has also given us "This machine makes folk music" written on guns which is just a stellar bit

[–] Carguacountii@hexbear.net 3 points 10 months ago

Hi, I think its used to refer to a guitar, because it is a machine (the tuning pegs are called Machine Heads, like the band name), that is it uses mechanical action (vibration of strings) to achieve a result, same as a piano is a machine. I guess you mean, its not a modern electrical, fossil fuel, or steam related machine, but it is still definately a machine! Whether it kills fascists is another question entirely of course.

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[–] Doubledee@hexbear.net 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

What do you want to play? That might make a big difference in terms of advice.

If you're at all into folk music you might see if there are any regular jam sessions/jamborees in your area. I was taught to play orchestral instruments but more or less self taught a bunch of folk instruments by going to jams. You'll run into people of all kinds of skill levels and can play in a low pressure setting where mistakes won't draw a lot of attention. They're often older folks too, so they appreciate the socializing and engagement in my experience.

[–] AlkaliMarxist@hexbear.net 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Hey thanks, that's good advice. I didn't really consider looking for jams/social groups/that sort of thing. I will have to have a look and see what's around, I do get social anxiety, especially when it comes to stuff like playing music, but if I can get over that I do like the idea a lot.

My main interest though is classic rock, when I think what I'd really like to be able to play it's things like Dire Straits, CCR, Pink Floyd, etc. I have a pretty varied taste though and there's plenty of folk revival, blues and even some country music I'd be interested in being able to play.

[–] GalaxyBrain@hexbear.net 2 points 10 months ago (6 children)

CCR is something you can do fairly soon after, some pink Floyd riffs are pretty simple, whole songs can be a thing depending on the song. Dire Straights is something to back burner for a good while. Mark Knoppler is a guitar legend and their stuff is fucking hard as hell.

As far as guitar advice goes, practice a LOT, playing with other people really helps and for bluesy stuff simple is often better.

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[–] FumpyAer@hexbear.net 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I'm not very experienced, but I had some success with the Mel Bay books.

[–] AlkaliMarxist@hexbear.net 3 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Cheers, any in particular you liked, I'm having a look and they have a pretty overwhelming selection.

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[–] Shinji_Ikari@hexbear.net 4 points 10 months ago (5 children)

I took lessons for years and sorta stopped taking it seriously during college, a couple years after I graduated I decided I wanted to take it more seriously. I sorta plateaued for a bit and just bit the bullet and got a teacher and my progress has skyrocketed in a few weeks.

My biggest struggle was learning and holding onto theory because I couldn't tie the many disparate parts together. I had learned and forgotten how to sight read several times, as well as various theory bits. Now I'm properly learning the fretboard and connecting it to concepts in a way that I'm able to just find scales and arpeggios rather than memorizing them.

Being able to make the connections and go "Ah! that's why this works!" is a huge game changer and confidence booster.

For a greater context, I got really bored playing most kinds of rock, learning songs just felt pointless to me. I'll go back to classical guitar occasionally but what I really wanted to do was create my own jazz chord melodies and that's sorta hard. I'm really good at learning songs from tab, but it began to feel sorta empty.

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[–] anonochronomus@hexbear.net 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (8 children)

Learn basic music theory. Do not be afraid of it. If you learn the nuts and bolts of music, it will be much easier to learn your instrument As a beginner, it will be most important for you to learn proper techniques (very difficult to unlearn bad habits) and build strength. Playing the guitar involves muscles in your hands and wrist that you probably don't use very much right now. It will be tough at first, but the more time you have hands on the instrument the better.

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[–] Llituro@hexbear.net 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

Use light strings, you're not gonna get anything extra from heavier ones but arthritis.

[–] AlkaliMarxist@hexbear.net 2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I'm using lights at the moment, but apparently there are like 3 levels of extra, super lights too, is it worth going even lighter?

[–] Llituro@hexbear.net 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

are you playing on an acoustic or an electric? sound-wise, on electrics, it doesn't matter a lot and most people tend to find lighter strings more comfortable. i would say 9's are a pretty standard light string. billy gibbons of zz top puts 7s on a les paul, and he still sounds like himself, so for electrics it just really doesn't matter as much as some people think. it's just what you prefer. disregard if you're playing an acoustic, for those i can just say that i tend to prefer light strings.

[–] AlkaliMarxist@hexbear.net 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Mostly acoustic, I think I have 12s - which is a light gauge in D'Addario's line up. No idea how that compares to anything else though except that I do have an electric and the strings are dramatically lighter.

[–] Llituro@hexbear.net 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

that's a pretty light string gauge for acoustics, as long as the action (string height above fretboard) on your instrument isn't too high, those should be fine. it's definitely something to play around with though. i have one electric strung with 11s for example because it works better with the bridge system on it.

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[–] Carguacountii@hexbear.net 2 points 10 months ago (3 children)

As far as I know, the difference in strings is to produce tendencies towards different sounds, not specifically to make it easier or harder to play, although lighter strings will be easier. I think there are some guitars with super hard strings, because they want a certain sound. Lighter strings are generally better for sustained ringing, and for chords, while heavier strings are louder and also better (with a pick) for melodies because they transmit individual notes better, but can sound worse for chords - they don't ring as long, being heavier. For learning, its all a bit academic, medium is fine, light is fine, very light is also fine, heavy/very heavy will make it harder.

I wouldn't worry about going lighter, unless you want the particular sound (it won't make a huge difference though), but in terms of injuries, if something hurts don't do it, aside from the kind of 'pain' you get from building muscle or callous which is fine, but if it hurts on a tendon or bone level, stop or change your technique.

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[–] wrecker_vs_dracula@hexbear.net 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Well, you can also get a lot more acoustic volume out of heavier strings and high action. It doesn't matter how well you play if nobody can hear you ;)

But yeah, play whatever strings feel good to you. I'm not going to tell you you're wrong for liking the light ones.

[–] Llituro@hexbear.net 3 points 10 months ago

my advice was admittedly electric-guitar centric

[–] grey_wolf_whenever@hexbear.net 3 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Hey! I play so much guitar, Im in a bunch of bands in NYC. Id say do it, if you can get a tutor thats great. My advice is to practice with a metronome so you can get good enough to play with other people, all anyone really wants is someone who can stay on beat.

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[–] FumpyAer@hexbear.net 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

DRM free copy of Rocksmith 2014 with all DLC. It is no longer on sale on Steam store and the Ubisoft Connect version has Denuvo.

https://fitgirl-repacks.site/rocksmith-2014-edition-remastered/

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