this post was submitted on 13 Jun 2024
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314
Trump’s mass purge of state department likely to sow chaos, US diplomats say (www.theguardian.com)
submitted 5 months ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world
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Project 2025 blueprint for second Trump term envisages replacing thousands of career staff with political loyalists

America’s career diplomats are braced for the threat of a mass purge if Donald Trump wins the November election and for the potential flooding of the state department with loyalty-tested political appointees.

Rather than leading to a seamless change of course in a rightward Trumpist direction, the diplomats’ union and former ambassadors argue, such an attempted takeover would be much more likely to end in legal challenges, gridlock and chaos.

If elected, Trump has threatened to reinstate a policy he unsuccessfully attempted in his first term with the creation of “Schedule F”, a new category of federal employees which would be applied to tens of thousands of civil servants in “policy-related” jobs, robbing them of legal protections and making them liable to be fired at will.

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[–] hydroptic@sopuli.xyz 88 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

That's probably the least insane part about Project 2025

Project contributor Jeffrey Clark advises the future president to immediately deploy the military for domestic law enforcement and direct the DOJ to pursue Donald Trump's adversaries by invoking the Insurrection Act of 1807. The Project recommends the arrest, detention, and deportation of undocumented immigrants. It promotes capital punishment and the speedy "finality" of such sentences.

Using the military to hunt dissidents and then recommending "speedy" capital punishment is pretty on-brand for conservatives.

[–] ReallyActuallyFrankenstein@lemmynsfw.com 42 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

It's humorous (in a hopeless, resigned, utterly defeated nihilistic sort of way) how transparent the fascism has gotten. "Trump's advisor recommends jack-booted thugs use legal pretext to punish political opponents without due process."

At least give me some subtext to decode, don't slap me in the face with it like a wet slice of bologna.

[–] samus12345@lemmy.world 14 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The GOP primarily used dog whistles until Trump showed them you can just say the quiet part out loud and MAGA will eat it up.

[–] CitizenKong@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Hitler's Germany has shown you only really need about a third of the people to be behind fascism for it to succeed (Hitler won with 35 percent of the popular vote). In the US, it looks like that percentage has already been reached.

[–] EveryoneDiesAlone@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

Fyi, 22% of the US population voted for trump in the last election, far from a third

[–] snooggums@midwest.social 7 points 5 months ago

I prefer it to be open and obvious so the people who support it can't hide behind pretending to misunderstand it.

[–] Chef@sh.itjust.works 9 points 5 months ago (5 children)

Unless they plan on repealing the Posse Comitatus Act, the military cannot be ordered to serve as law enforcement on US soil.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

[–] Carmakazi@lemmy.world 26 points 5 months ago (1 children)
  1. That's why they reference the Insurrection Act. Whether the current situation meets the criteria laid out does not matter to them.
  2. It should be obvious by now that words on the books do not stop fascists. They intend to stack public institution far and deep with party loyalists so that nobody can say "no" to their will...legally, anyway.
[–] samus12345@lemmy.world 10 points 5 months ago

I looked the Insurrection Act up. This kind of vague, old law is just the kind of thing that fascists love to leverage to install a brutal dictatorship. The GOP learned that they can do pretty much whatever they want and will get no meaningful resistance, so it would be pathetically easy for them to get rid of democracy once they have the Executive and Legislative branches again. The only saving grace is that they're pretty incompetent at actually getting things done, but we can't rely on that to save us again.

[–] variants@possumpat.io 11 points 5 months ago

Generally the military and police lean into fascism so at that point I'm not sure current rules and law would stop them

[–] hydroptic@sopuli.xyz 9 points 5 months ago (1 children)

It's adorable that people think piddling things like laws will stop fascists

[–] grue@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago

"Adorable" is not the right word for it!

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

They can do anything they want if the Supreme Court rules 5-4 and says they can.

[–] ShepherdPie@midwest.social 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Well that'll never happen... because they have a 6-3 majority so it'll be a 6-3 ruling.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 2 points 5 months ago

My theory is they'll do 5-4 rulings with one of the fascists dissenting in some bizarre and really technical way over their pet issue.

[–] zaph@sh.itjust.works 2 points 5 months ago

Well it's a good thing trump didn't stack the courts then.......

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

Yeah if it succeeds it will likely be remembered as similar to our Wannsee Conference. The goal is mass execution of undesirables

[–] ton618@lemm.ee 68 points 5 months ago (2 children)

What do you mean 'if he wins', you guys should fucking riot. Wasn't he convicted 34 times? He should be in prison

[–] APassenger@lemmy.world 27 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Obama broke Occupy. Biden and Clinton are vocal about not supporting the anti-genocide protests (except to say the protestor have specific rights).

There are no political leaders sympathetic to protests here. Only those who could maybe be cowed if we really fought. If that was likely, the FBI would infiltrate and agitators would create reasons for enforcement.

We're talking Floyd levels of riot that would remind people of Jan 6th and leave people feeling justified. MLKs proymtests were NOT popular at the time... We're looking for something and someone like that. Closest we've got is Shawn Fain.

My riot, for now, is my vote and my tepid support of formerly-Dark Brandon. He's done a lot. More than most. But Garland was a shit pick. And now we're here with trials delayed all over the place because Garland dithered.

[–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

After Trump’s weaponized dispatching of DHS and Secret Service against the protesters in Portland, I doubt we’ll see any success from protests or riots against his election. Just lots of arrests and injuries, and possibly some deaths.

Biden spoke in defense of our right to protest. He spoke out against disorderly conduct and attacks at protests.

[–] Sylver@lemmy.world 22 points 5 months ago (1 children)

US riots will always be localized or at least treated as such by the media, and thus isolated from the rest of the country. It’ll just be more city riots that further divide both sides, giving one justification for cracking down on the other

[–] NegativeInf@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Set the countryside on fire.

[–] Ember@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago

I, too, think that the best way to get people on my side is to burn their homes and livelihoods down. /s

[–] JJROKCZ@lemmy.world 7 points 5 months ago

Rural Americans would relish any opportunity to kill city dwellers they see as invading the small communities. While attempting to burn the countryside would certainly catch attention, the more likely event is farmers and sympathetic rural police forces killing urban citizens, especially those with brown skin or blue hair as that’s their normal scapegoats for what’s wrong in America if you listen to coffee shop talk.

I grew up in rural America, I was in a diner getting breakfast before school when gay marriage was passed, the comments from every mouth except mine proved to my young mind that American is firmly divided, and there will be no repairing this house.

[–] thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 5 months ago (1 children)

mother nature does that pretty well on its own

[–] samus12345@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

Yeah, we definitely don't need help with that in California.

[–] GrymEdm@lemmy.world 34 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

If he can follow up on even a portion of what he promises, a 2nd Trump presidency will bring the USA to a halt at multiple levels like a car hitting a reinforced wall. The best version of a Trump presidency is him raging daily as he's blocked constantly by legal challenges and bureaucratic measures thus getting nothing done. The worst version is that he succeeds in his goals, reforms the USA into a right-wing autocracy and destroys things like checks/balances and separation of church and state.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 29 points 5 months ago (1 children)

"Likely?"

A purge of any government agency would cause chaos. They work because of lifetime civil servants who are dedicated to making things work regardless of who is in charge.

[–] KnightontheSun@lemmy.world 7 points 5 months ago

He purged the State Department at the beginning of his presidency, so we already understand the damage it will do:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/29/state-department-purge-trump-foreign-policy

[–] Zrybew@lemmy.world 22 points 5 months ago

EnRussification of US

[–] WoahWoah@lemmy.world 12 points 5 months ago

No. Fucking. Shit.

[–] penquin@lemm.ee 11 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The quest of making the United States of America a part of the Trump organization. I don't know how not many see this.

[–] maniii@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Due to DNC and Biden inaction and corruption there is a massive enough majority who will set the world on fire and watch as it all burns down.

When Drumpf wins Nov2024 you will know who to blame for this fiasco. And it will be too little too late. Start planning for a mass exodus to Mexico or Canada.

When a large enough brain-drain happens, there is a direct national impact. So if enough sensible people leave after Nov2024, there will be enough stagnation and consequences that most govt operations should grind to almost non-existence. Come Nov2028 if y'all 'Muricans foreign or domestic can't take back the govt with absolute majorities, forget about it all for the next 50 years. Once enough SCOTUS replacement happens, maybe, maybe there will be a chance to cleanup all the damage and pickup the pieces.

[–] hydroptic@sopuli.xyz 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Come Nov2028 if y’all 'Muricans foreign or domestic can’t take back the govt with absolute majorities, forget about it all for the next 50 years

Project 2025 is specifically meant to prevent conservatives from losing power once Trump is elected – they're literally planning to use the military as domestic law enforcement to "quell unrest on election day" and to use the DOJ to hunt "Trump's adversaries." I wouldn't be surprised if the coming presidential election was the last free election the US sees.

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago

Well yeah it’s intended to sow chaos and topple our government

[–] Doom@ttrpg.network 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

This sounds scary and I have no reason to claim this but I believe this will just blow up in their face.

Something they overlooked that will be used against them

[–] boomzilla@programming.dev 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The playbook for Project 2025 is about 1000 pages long. A think tank with decades of experience about US politics is behind it. Heritage Foundation heavily influenced a lot of policies of past GOP presidents.

In a german podcast I recently heard about a few of the keypoints of their plans. Let me just say: 2017 wasn't the most important election in the USA. It's this year. Especially when regarding what's happening in Europe and also with the climate. The world can't afford "Drill baby drill" or guys like DeSantis getting blank checks and other foobar situations like mask bans everywhere or leaving NATO.

If you're not considering Dark Brandon you're just not informed enough.

[–] Doom@ttrpg.network 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Look I'm not trying to downplay genuinely but every election will be this and has been. From Carter to Regan to Bush and Obama. They're all really important.

That said, they slammed abortion and it harmed them. They rigged the election for Bush but failed for Trump.

I don't think they're on the rise, I think they're thrashing struggling for air here. Project 2025 is desperation in my eyes.

[–] boomzilla@programming.dev 1 points 5 months ago

I'm from Germany and we know to good how fast bat shit crazy and intelligent guys with authoritarianistic aspirations can hypnotize the masses and let them commit crimes against humanity (in fact we're just witnessing it again with the AfD). Those same guys have the absolute will to win the next US election. Doesn't matter if they ran into a few roadblocks on their journey. Doesn't matter if they claim they are not associated with the Nazi mentality or that Hitler was an abomination. They essentially pursue the same goals.

I have no will anymore to discuss this out with internet strangers, so I let others speak:

https://michiganadvance.com/2024/01/16/project-2025-if-allowed-will-cement-america-as-a-rightwing-authoritarian-state/

"Author and legal analyst James Zirin, said in an op-ed in The Hill on Nov 13 Trump wants to “terminate the Constitution to restore himself to power, an insurrectionary act in and of itself. That power would be in the hands of the president with neither checks nor balances.

Trump has vowed on Day 1 to invoke the Insurrection Act to deploy the military to violently crush any protest or dissent. He plans to purge the Justice Department of anyone deemed disloyal and deploy across four federal agencies a 50,000-strong bloc of loyalists to defense, legal, judicial and regulatory slots."

From the perspective of people who understand that Project 2025 is just fascism hiding behind the MAGA hats:

https://www.reddit.com/r/behindthebastards/comments/16u12zj/hitlers_rise_to_power_episode_and_project_2025/

And a podcast for to share with friends & family:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-T5Dfl20klw