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submitted 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) by KnilAdlez@hexbear.net to c/chat@hexbear.net

"So yeah the son of God was on earth, but you just missed him. He was crucified about 50 years ago. Your dad might've met him."

And then Mount Vesuvius fucking explodes

Edit: I meant Roman, I wrote this late at night.

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[-] xiaohongshu@hexbear.net 40 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

One of the greatest revelation from Michael Hudson’s research with the Harvard Peabody Museum archeology team is that Jesus was the leader of a debt cancellation movement in the ancient Near East who died revolting against the creditor-led oligarchic regimes.

The Greek word (ὀφειλήματα/opheilēma) had been variously translated in different versions of the Bible as “(financial) debts” or “sins”, with scholars arguing whether they meant moral failure/sins (more formally παράπτωμα/paraptōma) or financial debts owed to creditors. The problem came when Constantine made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire, a religion centered around the Jubilee.

From the blurb of ...and forgive them their debts: Lending, Foreclosure and Redemption From Bronze Age Finance to the Jubilee Year (Tyranny of Debt) (2018):

The Real Message of Jesus: Jesus's first sermon announced that he had come to proclaim a Clean Slate debt cancellation (the Jubilee Year), as was first described in the Bible (Leviticus 25), and had been used in Babylonia since Hammurabi's dynasty. This message - more than any other religious claim - is what threatened his enemies, and is why he was put to death. This interpretation has been all but expunged from our contemporary understanding of the phrase, "...and forgive them their debts," in The Lord's Prayer. It has been changed to "...and forgive them their trespasses (or sins)," depending on the particular Christian tradition that influenced the translation from the Greek opheilēma/opheiletēs (debts/debtors).

Contrary to the message of Jesus, also found in the Old Testament of the Bible and in other ancient texts, debt repayment has become sanctified and mystified as a way of moralizing claims on borrowers, allowing creditor elites and oligarchs the leverage to take over societies and privatize personal and public assets - especially in hard times. Historically, no monarchy or government has survived takeover by creditor elites and oligarchs (viz: Rome). Perhaps most striking is that - according to a nearly complete consensus of Assyriologists and biblical scholars - the Bible is preoccupied with debt forgiveness more than with sin.

[-] imogen_underscore@hexbear.net 8 points 2 weeks ago

I'm so interested in this stuff. I found it fascinating reading Graeber's Debt when he talks about how a lot of words relating to sin, transgression, etc. have very old etymologies linking them directly to the concept of debt.

[-] IzyaKatzmann@hexbear.net 2 points 1 week ago
[-] PurrLure@hexbear.net 3 points 2 weeks ago

Is there a documentary or good video I can watch about this?

[-] FourteenEyes@hexbear.net 27 points 2 weeks ago

Why am I at Pompeii if I'm Greek

[-] Gosplan14_the_Third@hexbear.net 22 points 2 weeks ago

Southern Italy had a Greek majority until the middle ages.

[-] KnilAdlez@hexbear.net 7 points 2 weeks ago

Teaching a rich kid philosophy

[-] ComradeRat@hexbear.net 3 points 2 weeks ago

greeks set up colonies along the entirety of the mediterranean sea from the west shore to the east and from the north to the south. They were settler-colonising in this way from around the 400s or 500s BC until they got owned by the romans

[-] FourteenEyes@hexbear.net 2 points 2 weeks ago

goldern Greeks takin all the Roman jerbs

[-] radio_free_asgarthr@hexbear.net 27 points 2 weeks ago

Wait, they are worshiping the guy that made bread and wine? Then went into a death an rebirth cycle? Are you sure they weren't confused and talking about Dionysis?

[-] miz@hexbear.net 27 points 2 weeks ago

Egyptian guy overhears the conversation and breaks in arguing about Osiris

[-] Florn@hexbear.net 26 points 2 weeks ago

Chances are you're a follower of one of the myriad other wacky mystery cults floating around at the time anyway

[-] Thallo@hexbear.net 32 points 2 weeks ago

Oh, your messiah died? Mine is still alive in the next village over

[-] Weedian@hexbear.net 27 points 2 weeks ago

Oh he just died? You're telling me now for the first time

[-] Florn@hexbear.net 22 points 2 weeks ago

I heard they're gonna be minting a new Messiah in Alexandria next week

[-] Mardoniush@hexbear.net 22 points 2 weeks ago

Jesus is a revisionist of John the Baptistism.

[-] Flyberius@hexbear.net 23 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Why Greek specifically and not Roman?

Also Caesar and Cicero and some of the fall of the Republic all time greats were all crowded around this time period too. It was like MCU, but less lame

[-] KobaCumTribute@hexbear.net 18 points 2 weeks ago

It was like MCU, but less lame

No matter how cringe capeshit is it will never be as cringe as the Romans.

[-] The_Walkening@hexbear.net 4 points 2 weeks ago

IIRC people in that part of the Roman empire commonly spoke Greek because of Alexander the Great's conquest of the area centuries earlier. So you'd be more likely to run into someone bilingual in Aramaic and Greek than you would Aramaic and Latin

[-] KnilAdlez@hexbear.net 3 points 2 weeks ago

I fucked up. It was late and my wires got crossed.

[-] GrouchyGrouse@hexbear.net 21 points 2 weeks ago

I'd probably be most incredulous about the Virgin Birth part. "Wait your God didn't turn into a goose or something so he could bang Mary on the sly? You sure about that?"

[-] Camdat@hexbear.net 16 points 2 weeks ago

Highly recommend Engels "On the History of Early Christianity" if you haven't read it.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1894/early-christianity/

[-] Mardoniush@hexbear.net 14 points 2 weeks ago

In fairness Jews were very common in the east empire and gentile "god fearers" weren't uncommon either. They'd just be a particularly annoying gentile essene offshoot.

[-] Pisha@hexbear.net 13 points 2 weeks ago

I've always wondered why people were so ready to convert. Like, if I was some ancient Roman and some guy came up to me offering a new god that's even better than the old ones and much easier to worship, I wouldn't just immediately fall for it. It just seems like a scam.

[-] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 12 points 2 weeks ago

It did take a while, and I'm sure people called it a cult of Jesus or something back then too (Idk if there's evidence for that but there were many cults of Gods/demigods etc. in antiquity)

[-] keepcarrot@hexbear.net 9 points 2 weeks ago

Idk, what was holding you to the other guy?

[-] CliffordBigRedDog@hexbear.net 15 points 2 weeks ago

Me not getting torn apart by lions in the Arena

[-] SpiderFarmer@hexbear.net 9 points 2 weeks ago

speech-r smuglord

Imagine this dude with a Centurion hat.

[-] CliffordBigRedDog@hexbear.net 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Dear Nazerenes if your god is so almighty why doesnt he stop me from nailing you to this cross here

debatejak

[-] Dolores@hexbear.net 8 points 2 weeks ago

it seemed positive if you were a woman or enslaved.

[-] infuziSporg@hexbear.net 6 points 2 weeks ago

Periodic reminder that the Roman Empire sucked, for everyone who wasn't a patrician.

[-] infuziSporg@hexbear.net 10 points 2 weeks ago

Around that time the Gospels were all like zines, really popular in the growing christo-punk scene back then

this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2024
87 points (100.0% liked)

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