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submitted 1 year ago by maniajack@lemmy.world to c/til@lemmy.world

During the trial it was revealed that McDonald’s knew that heating their coffee to this temperature would be dangerous, but they did it anyways because it would save them money. When you serve coffee that is too hot to drink, it will take much longer for a person to drink their coffee, which means that McDonald’s will not have to give out as many free refills of coffee. This policy by the fast food chain is the reason the jury awarded $2.7 million dollars in punitive damages in the McDonald's hot coffee case. Punitive damages are meant to punish the defendant for their inappropriate business practice.

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[-] AnonTwo@kbin.social 287 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It's pretty screwed up how the media made light of this lawsuit.

A lawsuit that ended in gross negligence, and the media shamed the lady involved for a decade.

[-] JoeClu@lemmy.world 66 points 1 year ago

It's pretty scary how media can influence us so much, even when we think they aren't, and even when we think "only dumb people fall for it." No my friend, the majority fall for it. Not cause they're dumb, but because they've scienced the hell out of human nature and know precisely how to do it right under our noses. It started with marketing and advertising that works well, unfortunately. They've cracked the psyche code. Media adopted it. Big tech improved it. Gah... this is turning into a rant about capitalism; I didn't intend to go there. Eek.

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[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago

I'm just glad for her that almost no one knows her name. Can you imagine the doxxing and death threats she would be getting if this happened today?

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[-] sbv@sh.itjust.works 195 points 1 year ago

The woman's scalds were almost enough to kill her. She spent weeks in hospital and needed skin grafts. To make it worse, McDonald's had received multiple complaints about the temperature of their coffee.

[-] MeatsOfRage@lemmy.world 118 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Her lawsuit was just to help cover the medical expenses. McDonald's didn't want a precedence of being sued so their PR cooked up a narrative of greedy frivolous lawsuits and America bought this story hook line and sinker.

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[-] brygphilomena@lemmy.world 70 points 1 year ago

It fused her labia together. The coffee was so hot and the burns were so bad that her labia fused together.

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[-] slumlordthanatos@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago

They had a slush fund set up specifically to pay out settlements for coffee burns.

They knew it was a problem, but decided it would be cheaper to pay off burn victims than to serve their coffee at a safe temperature.

[-] ohlaph@lemmy.world 150 points 1 year ago

When you dive into that case, you definitely side with the lady. She had some pretty serious burns, like way beyond what most of us would get if we spilled coffee that we made at the house.

If my memory serves me well, she originally only asked them to cover the medical expenses. So their greed ended up costing them far more.

[-] Xtallll@lemmy.blahaj.zone 59 points 1 year ago

The injuries involved the phrase "labia fused to leg".

[-] SacrificedBeans@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago

Oh.. I can't unread that...

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[-] HawlSera@lemm.ee 139 points 1 year ago

It was used as the definitive "Frivolous Lawsuit", but... in reality McDonalds just told Media Companies "Make us look like the victim here, or we're pulling our precious advertising dollars."

[-] OrteilGenou@lemmy.world 73 points 1 year ago

The picture of that poor woman's thighs is all you need to see to know this was not a frivolous suit

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[-] vivadanang@lemm.ee 38 points 1 year ago

I just wish the victims lawyers had responded to those claims with the pictures of that poor woman's third degree burns. she suffered horrifically and for years.

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[-] Whorehoarder@lemmynsfw.com 125 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Must be one of the more successful smear campaigns in recent history. I'm not even from the us and we heard about that shit and used it as an example of greed and frivolous lawsuits. It was only like 5 years back I learned the truth. Believed that shit for 25 years..

Edit: oops should've responded to the media part of thread

[-] Angry_Maple@sh.itjust.works 50 points 1 year ago

Poor lady. Her labia was physically fused together from the heat, but she was still called dramatic. I can't imagine everything that she had to go through.

[-] maniajack@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago

And she originally only asked for McDonald's to cover her medical expenses ($20k) which they refused.

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[-] jenniebuckley@lemmy.world 102 points 1 year ago

but yet people will still dismiss it as a stupid lawsuit by some greedy woman. gotta protect those big corps

[-] bemenaker@lemmy.world 81 points 1 year ago

They had also been warned several times previously to stop doing it.

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[-] ultratiem@lemmy.ca 74 points 1 year ago

Oh man there is so much to this case. First, she asked for like $40k, enough to cover the cost of the medical bills. To be clear, she received extensive burns as the coffee was so hot that it would burn in seconds (the wiki had a breakdown of the times/temps and they were illuminating). Moreover, it wasn’t even the hottest coffee available. Starbucks was serving much hotter coffee at the time (the hottest I think recorded). In the end, she got paid, but McDs never cooled their coffee (nor did anyone else), all they did was make better lids lol.

[-] maniajack@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago

AND she was in a car with no cup holders. It wasn't a standard feature in sports cars in the 90s. She had borrowed it from her son.

https://www.capitalone.com/cars/learn/managing-your-money-wisely/remembering-the-ford-probes-role-in-the-infamous-mcdonalds-hot-coffee-lawsuit/1299

And you're right that it didn't change coffee temps that much:

“During the Liebeck court proceedings, McDonald’s said it served its coffee between 180 and 190 degrees,” according to The New York Times. “The company has refused to disclose today’s standard temperature, but Retro Report shows a handbook for franchisees calling for temperatures 10 degrees lower.”

If it doesn’t sound like much, it’s because it’s not. McDonald’s chooses to keep their coffee scaldingly hot because, according to attorney Butch Wagner, hot coffee stays fresh for longer. They save money by doing this (millions per day, in fact, across their US franchises alone), even if it means paying out for other hot coffee settlements—of which there are plenty.

https://thedieline.com/blog/2019/2/13/drink-at-your-own-risk-how-a-90s-lawsuit-changed-or-failed-to-change-coffee-drinking

[-] Cabrio@lemmy.world 61 points 1 year ago
[-] superseven@feddit.de 22 points 1 year ago

I have to admit that i didn't expect that not boiling water could do so much damage.

[-] JustZ@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

She was wearing jeans. The superheated water absorbed into the fabric, and held it right against her skin. Part of the case was that McDonald's knew it was handing these cups of near-boiling water down, into vehicles, in which people were restrained. It made their conduct more negligent.

I had a soda spill on me once at a drivethrough. Everyone in the drive through business surely knows that things spill, down, onto customers.

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[-] reverendsteveii@sopuli.xyz 52 points 1 year ago

People love narratives that are simple and have an easy to understand moral to them even if they're absolutely wrong. In this case, the narrative is that she asked for hot coffee and got hot coffee, and the moral is that people are greedy and stupid and you have to protect yourself from them. I've often found that one well-constructed point can blow these narratives up though. I was talking with my dad about this particular case, he's a big "gotta do something about these frivolous lawsuits" guy because he used to own a business that was adjacent to real estate and real estate is probably the most litigated business in America. I'm a big "frivolous lawsuits is a term exploitative industries use to get people excited to give up their rights" guy, so we were at loggerheads about this one. Eventually I was like "Have you ever spilled coffee? When you did, who paid for your skin grafts?" Turns out that when crafting their narrative about how she was "suing them for giving her what she asked for", the industry lobby left out the part where she had to spend 8 days in the hospital and have multiple reconstructive surgeries.

[-] Moobythegoldensock@lemm.ee 38 points 1 year ago

And she only asked McDonalds to cover her medical bills. It was the jury who threw out her request and instead punished McDonalds with the huge settlement, because they were horrified by how grossly negligent the company had been and decided her request wasn’t a strong enough punishment.

[-] AEsheron@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago

Don't forget they had previously been ordered several times to reduce the temperature and refused.

[-] funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 24 points 1 year ago

the same goes for the Dingos Ate My Baby woman

dingos did eat her baby.

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[-] yads@lemmy.ca 39 points 1 year ago

Didn't realize the reason was this petty. I always thought it had something to do with how many beans it took, or the time or something like that. Not that it just took longer for a customer to drink Beca they'd be burning their mouth. I'm glad she got what was owed to her. Poor woman.

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[-] drekly@lemmy.world 31 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

EVERY coffee shop overheats the drinks in the UK and it's infuriating. Every chain coffee just tastes like scorched milk and burnt beans and you can't drink it for 30 mins.

I'm unsure whether, unlike this case, they serve it hot enough that if you spill it, your labia fuses together from the heat of the burns. Horrifying.

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[-] Tekchip@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago

Can someone explain this to Dunkin Donuts and their molten coffee?

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[-] tdawg@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago

Fun fact. The guy who served her the cup of coffee is related to the owner of a Panera franchise that I use to work for. Both him and his brother-in-law (I think that's how they were related) would talk about how that was their claim to fame back when they we're franchising with McDonalds

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this post was submitted on 20 Sep 2023
1425 points (98.5% liked)

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