this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2024
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Hello comrades. In the interest of upholding our code of conduct - specifically, rule 1 (providing a friendly, safe and welcoming environment for all) - we felt it appropriate to make a statement regarding the lionization of Luigi Mangione, the alleged United Healthcare CEO shooter, also known as "The Adjuster."

In the day or so since the alleged shooter's identity became known to the public, the whole world has had the chance to dig though his personal social media accounts and attempt to decipher his political ideology and motives. What we have learned may shock you. He is not one of us. He is a "typical" American with largely incoherent, and in many cases reactionary politics. For the most part, what is remarkable about the man himself is that he chose to take out his anger on a genuine enemy of the proletariat, instead of an elementary school.

This is a situation where the art must be separated from the artist. We do not condemn the attack, but as a role model, Luigi Mangione falls short. We do not expect perfection from revolutionary figures either, but we expect a modicum of revolutionary discipline. We expect them not simply to identify an unpopular element of society hitler-detector , but to clearly illuminate the causes of oppression and the means by which they are overcome. When we canonize revolutionary figures, we are holding them up as an example to be followed.

This is where things come back to rule 1. Mangione has a long social media history bearing a spectrum of reactionary viewpoints, and interacting positively with many powerful reactionary figures. While some commenters have referred to this as "nothing malicious," by lionizing this man we effectively deem this behavior acceptable, or at the very least, safe to ignore. This is the type of tailism which opens the door to making a space unsafe for marginalized people.

We're going to be more strict on moderating posts which do little more than lionize the shooter. There is plenty to be said about the unfolding events, the remarkably positive public reaction, how public reactions to "propaganda of the deed" may have changed since the historical epoch of its conception (and how the strategic hazards might not have), and many other aspects of the news without canonizing this man specifically. We can still dance on the graves of our enemies and celebrate their rediscovered fear and vulnerability without the vulgar revisionism needed to pretend this man is some sort of example of Marxist or Anarchist practice.

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[–] Commiejones@hexbear.net 9 points 6 days ago

The only correct response is to deny that Luigi is The Guy. Fuck Luigi. God damned fed boot licking scumbag is willing to give up his life for their lie and I hope he has the worst possible time in prison. The 3 letter agencies have created patsies before. They always lie and plant evidence. Luigi is not the guy, its an unfalsifiable Orthodoxy embrace it.

The real story that the feds wont tell you.The Guy was a fucking hero. He killed that ceo scum. He hopped on his bike, rode into central park, Changed his clothes and walked out of there looking like a tourist. He caught a plane home. He went back to his lover's grave and told them he avenged them. He sat down and felt more alone than even the moment they had died from an illness that should have been covered by their insurance. He wept for hours for because he now knew there was nothing to hold his lover to this world but he was wrong.

He was about to pass out from the exhaustion of weeping. Unbidden came the memory of their home, a "fixer-uper," the only thing they "could" afford, it was gone, eaten by medical bills, in its place there was a 4 story neo-brutalist apartment building. The whole neighbourhood was gone. He remembered the day they finally took possession of the house. He carried them over the threshold half ironically but half as a desperate plea for mercy from the reactionary ideals they offended. He set them down to the sound of creaking floorboards. "there is still so much to do." Their voice had spoken these words softly with wearied resolution at the time but now they rang in his head with defiance and anger, "THERE IS STILL SO MUCH TO DO" The Guy did have more to do. He had gotten away with it this time. The one most responsible for their death was dead but there were more CEOs and and entire world geared towards making more CEOs to replace any that might fall.

He looked down at his hands they were red with blood. He blinked and another drop of blood fell from his eyes. Yes He would soak his hands in blood, the blood of the capitalists will fall like rain. The tears of all the exploited and cheated masses would be matched by the blood of the rich. but first he would need to organize likeminded people, he needed to read more theory, he needed to let his dead love go and devote himself fully to the revolution.

[–] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 7 points 6 days ago

here's the final comment of the threadLAST! OH SHIT IS THAT MARIO ABOUT TO PUSH ME DOWN THE STAIRS? stairs

[–] PointAndClique@hexbear.net 7 points 6 days ago

Lion eyes lionise lyin' eyes 👁️ Luigi ain't our boy

[–] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 6 points 6 days ago

Alright I'm pulling all the pins and locking this down. if you sneak in a comment before the door closes try to make it something funny other than "last"

[–] PapaEmeritusIII@hexbear.net 6 points 6 days ago
[–] myrrh@ttrpg.network 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)
[–] Leon_Grotsky@hexbear.net 6 points 6 days ago

I really wish you people would stop with that stupid thought-terminating aphorism.

"Don't let the good enough be the enemy of better"

Damn, that was easy. I am so smart.

[–] HamManBad@hexbear.net 106 points 1 week ago

I'm going to post my reddit comment replying to a discussion about how Lenin's critique of adventurism applies in this situation, because I think it sums up my thoughts pretty well:

Lenin was critiquing socialists engaging in adventurism, who should know better. If this dude were in the PSL or something, the party would be in the uncomfortable position of needing to publicly distance themselves from him if they want to maintain a disciplined ideology rooted in democratic centralism. But the fact that this was some tech bro who had to face the material conditions of the health insurance industry and organically gravitated toward an adventurist strategy-- that's something else entirely. That's a barometer of class malcontent in the general population, and it seems to be off the charts at the moment

[–] xiaohongshu@hexbear.net 90 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (7 children)

I think you are getting it backwards: people (not just here) are celebrating spontaneous adventurism because there is no left in America that would step up and do something about the deteriorating and exploitative healthcare situation in the country.

It would not even be a spectacle if there is an actual left wing movement in America. And until you have an organized movement in the country that is serious about winning and actually does things (not cosplaying as protestors in rallies), you simply have to concede to what the masses (most of whom are the working class people who want a left to do something about it) think about this guy.

Reading the reaction as the lionization of an individual rather than an emotional outburst of an entire class of people suffering from years of oppression will, of course, lead the American left to miss their mark once more.

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[–] MouthyHooker@hexbear.net 83 points 1 week ago (1 children)

We do not expect perfection from revolutionary figures either, but we expect a modicum of revolutionary discipline. We expect them not simply to identify an unpopular element of society , but to clearly illuminate the causes of oppression and the means by which they are overcome

Respectfully, don’t hold your fucking breath. He’s not the hero we deserve, but he’s the hero we need…? Or, he’s not the hero we need, but he’s the hero we deserve?

Look, I’m not looking to canonize the guy. He’s no Fidel. He’s no Harriet Tubman.

But for fuck’s sake, the purity tests get a bit exhausting. I’m not aware of any successful revolutions that were won by revolutionaries who were all on the same page ideologically. Are you?

At some point we’re gonna have to reckon with the fact that revolution requires alliance with people who have problematic views.

Dude had some bigoted viewpoints and dumbass takes. He doesn’t appear to be a Nazi though, IMO.

For fuck’s sake, when I was 26, I was libbed the fuck up, eager to use my international relations degree to work for the UN or the fucking State Dept 🤮 When I was 32, I was so libbed up I was posting inspirational Harry Potter metaphors on Facebook to inspire the other libs to ReSiSt Trump.

Now I am a 40 year old anarchist prostitute! None of us came out of the womb radicalized. The kid has time to develop some class consciousness. Let him cook.

Critical support to him. Don’t pedestal individuals. But this discourse on the left is fucking frustrating.

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[–] Praxagora@hexbear.net 75 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (18 children)

Okay, I literally only started commenting on this site literally less than a week ago, so I want to drop a disclaimer before I start yapping that I don't mean to misrepresent anyone's positions.

I think there's value in noting his various alleged and reported reactionary tendencies because when we're on a site like Hexbear which is just largely us leftists, we should know where the line in the sand is among ourselves. But what's the point? Well, the point is this: We should never expect perfection from "revolutionary figures" but there are figures who have come historically close to to it and whom are actually one of us. Those like Alexandra Kollontai, Fred Hampton, Leila Khaled. They deserve our recognition because only us leftists can ever pay tribute to their actions and recognize them for the heroes they are, whom should have given universal "lionization" in a just world. While we should seize the moment which things like this provides, someone like Luigi (unless there's been a drastic change in his values in the months he's reportedly gone cold turkey from his socials) hasn't come close to earning the credentials to stand among those we should be paying our respects to.

I don't think it's pedantic to insist on this because us leftists are the most persecuted and censored political groups in the West in the entirety of its contemporary and when we're among ourselves, we should not be elevating any random person to some heroic ranking when there are plenty of others to hold up as inspirational. That sort of thing among ourselves would detract from the important recognition that there really have been revolutionary figures who came close to perfection in terms of our ideals, whose memory has been completely suppressed from any public consciousness.

Yes, when I'm on R*ddit (fuck me, I literally vowed to never go back to that site again in one of my first comments here but this event is drawing me back in) or especially IRL, you can bet I'm not going to be going "Well actually, he's likely reactionary and you should feel gross for supporting him." I'll pretend he's a full blown Das Kapital-reciting Marxist-Leninist and "The Last Communist" if that's what it takes to use this moment to instil some miniscule specks of revolutionary awareness in the average person I'm in contact with. If there's anything that can be done to prolong this ephemeral moment of frankly miraculous class solidarity we're seeing in the bombed out ideological wasteland of Western society by even a second more for the IRL communities I'm in, yes, I'll "lionize" him to sainthood if necessary.

For example, the food bank org I volunteer with actually agreed yesterday to allow us to commission some small pamphlets with poems and personal testimonies on struggling with insurance (and lol someone suggested Luigi stickers if Nintendo doesn't Oreshnik us with their legal team) for the distribution team to hand out during the food drive this holidays. Literally nothing, all things considered, but you wouldn't imagine the amount of pushback from the civility libs just to agree to do something small like this. There's also great examples of others using whatever medium they have at hand to help educate their audiences on the twisted nature of the American system right now, like Jesse Welles' new song about United Health and its founder Richard T. Burke. But when we're among ourselves, as leftists, we should know where we should really stand because there are real near-perfect heroes out there that deserve our support and whom have only us leftists to depend on for solidarity.

Do most people in this community even know that the Merrimack 4 - Calla, Bridget, Paige and Sophie - who are part of the Palestinian Action US group that heroically sabotaged productions at a Elbit Systems factory, the Israeli arms contractor, are currently in jail right now? Calla is a great comrade who I personally met while at an event for Cuban solidarity (IIRC, I think the Deprogram podcast also did an episode with her about Cuba) and is actually one of us. Luigi is likely well aware of the widespread support from the general population by now and the general population is already apparently all too happy to support him and send him things in commissary to show he is "not alone."

But it rests with us leftists alone to stand with those like the Merrimack 4 and let them know their heroism has not been and will not be forgotten. Calla has been doxxed and harassed by stalker Israeli groups like Canary Mission and the shitstain incels on r/tankiejerk. The 14th is the halfway point of their 60 day imprisonment and this is usually the point in time where the initial wave of support slows down and the isolating pressure of the fascist prison system sets into the morale of the imprisoned

I actually have been meaning to ask the admins/mods (but I haven't figured out if there's a way to PM the mod team) if it would be okay to make a post on the mutual aid sub in 3 days time for the purpose of sending them gifts like letters or books, especially as they'll be imprisoned through the holiday season and into the new year. If not, I'll just ask now that anyone here who is considering sending Luigi any gifts to please instead consider sending a message of solidarity to others like Calla, Bridget, Paige and Sophie instead (or on their socials). Here a link to Calla's Twitter with information on means of support for anyone interested.

In short, use the moment this event has provided when doing IRL work in whichever way you feel necessary but when we're among ourselves, we should always remember there are those who deserve our solidarity and our attention to their memory far more than those the general public already recognize and whom are actually our own. This is why, within communities like this, there should be a clear distinction and reservations made, in my opinion.

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[–] thelastaxolotl@hexbear.net 71 points 1 week ago (3 children)
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[–] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 69 points 1 week ago (6 children)

I just find the whole shooting and everything that came after it really really funny. Why do people have to turn something so absurdly funny into something ultra serious? He's not the next Lenin or the next John Brown. You don't have to put him on a pedestal or even care that much about him as a person. Fucking relax. Please.

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[–] ferristriangle@hexbear.net 68 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I mean, he shouldn't be lionized regardless because he didn't do it.

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[–] Rojo27@hexbear.net 66 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (12 children)

Seriously disappointed by what I'm seeing here and in a few other places on hexbear. Do I support the action? Of course. Do I see it as an opportunity to increase class conciousness? Yes. Am I going to uncritically support Luigi just because of that? No.

If all it takes is a single act and the use of some vaguely class concious language to absolve someone of thier reactionary views then why don't we just start uncritically supporting MAGA communists, Vaush, and any other public figures who hold vaguely leftist views? When I see people saying "don't criticize Luigi" I see people saying that they don't give a fuck about their comrades who are marginalized because they belong to a minority group who is affected by reactionary views.

If we are going to use this as an opportunity to build class conciousness, let us do so intelligently. I've been talking to people IRL about this and emphasizing the material conditions which brought about this act. But if someone were to point out that he believed that part of the problem that Americans are facing is woke/DEI or immigrants then I'm going to call him out on that. And if anyone here who keeps on harping about "letting perfect be the enemy of good" then just fucking stop and think for one second. You're opening the door for the right to capture the people who are awakening to their class conciousness. And hell its not as if it isn't already happening. THe populist Trump right uses woking class language all the time to justify heinous shit. And if you are willing to let Luigi's shit views slide then you may as well start supporting right wing populaists just because they are "building" class conciousness.

Also seeing people whine about how this is being moderated and it being "worse" than reddit are being incredibly daft. I still see plenty of Luigi memes that haven't been deleted by the mod team. If you think that posts and comments lionizing or otherwise uncritically supporting Luigi then you are being reddit-logo brained.

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[–] mkultrawide@hexbear.net 65 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (10 children)

Did you guys check if yamagami had good politics before you officially lionized him on Hexbear? Or are you just navel gazing because Luigi is American?

[–] iie@hexbear.net 7 points 6 days ago

when did hexbear ever hero worship the Shinzo Abe shooter? When was he ever more than a meme on this site.

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[–] godlessworm@hexbear.net 65 points 1 week ago (3 children)

okay that's fine, but what if i want to lionize him as in, draw him and turn him into a hot, buff anthropomorphic lion, kind of like tony the tiger but a bit more human and a lot more sexy?

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[–] Hello_Kitty_enjoyer@hexbear.net 64 points 1 week ago (2 children)

what is remarkable about the man himself is that he chose to take out his anger on a genuine enemy of the proletariat, instead of an elementary school.

it's cause he's italian (not a total whiteboy)

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[–] foxontherocks@hexbear.net 60 points 1 week ago (9 children)

His politics were awful but what if he changed. People can change. He read the Lorax.

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[–] DeathToBritain@hexbear.net 58 points 1 week ago (8 children)

the cycles between mod overreach backlash keep getting shorter and shorter

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[–] Ericthescruffy@hexbear.net 58 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I'll do my best to respect the direction the community opts to go and I understand the reasons and stated concern...but as someone who hasn't personally done much lionizing of Mangione after his reveal, consider this my voice of dissent.

I am also disappointed that Luigi Mangione falls well short of our ideal role model as much as anyone...but ultimately we are materialists and this reaction strikes me as rather liberal and idealist. This isn't even a case where the right thing was done for the wrong reasons. Mangione's actions and motivations as outlined in his manifesto were an action of class war. As a figure he is complicated and problematic and the way he did the math completely wrong and somehow still managed to arrive at the right conclusion is quite head scratching...but ultimately I believe the words "critical support" apply here.

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[–] rhubarb@hexbear.net 56 points 1 week ago

He is not a revolutionary figure, he is an atom of the masses, maybe the first bubble of a pot about to boil over. The masses do not appear out of thin air when The Conditions are right, they come from the current reactionary society, and we have to meet them as they are, they will not become revolutionary on their own. It makes no sense to condemn him for either adventurism or having reactionary views, those are our failures as organized radical leftists.

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