this post was submitted on 05 Feb 2025
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chapotraphouse

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This whole thing is being risen again steadily in my circles, but I cannot find my stuff on it.

Can I get sources? and counter-arguments

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[–] sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

Posting this and another comment from yogthuos that I find useful. Most of what is written here is taken almost directly from the prolewiki page

the Uyghur population has been steadily increasing and grew by more than 25% between 2010 and 2018 even though the total population of Xinjiang only rose by 13.99%. The Uyghur population is growing faster than Han Chinese (2%) or other ethnic minorities (22.14%).[source]

Chinese protections of Islam have been reputed to be contested by some citizens as suggesting preferential treatment, refuting the claim that the China's policies are anti-Islam.[source]

China has roughly 54 other ethnic groups which have been relatively unscathed, including other Muslim-majority ethnic groups such as the Hui ethnic group, which is larger than the Uyghur population. In 2019, almost 1,000 diplomats and journalists from many countries as well as the UN, EU, Arab League, African Union, and Organisation of Islamic Cooperation visited Xinjiang and found no evidence of genocide. [source]

In response to the Trump administration Secretary of State Mike Pompeo's claims of genocide in Xinjiang, people from all walks of life in the region submitted at least 450 written responses and 345 videos condemning the comments as untrue and harmful. [source]

Adrian Zenz is a far-right racist connected to the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, which is controlled by the U.S. government. He claimed that Xinjiang is forcibly sterilizing Uyghur women with IUDs. In fact, only 328,475 of China's total 3,774,318 IUDs were in Xinjiang.[source]

In September 2018, he said there were about 1,060,000 Uyghurs in re-education camps. This number is based on anonymous interviews with only eight people.[source]

In his initial report for the ~1M estimate, Radio Free Asia is cited four times, and the estimate is only mentioned on (pp. 21-2). Zenz finds this number by roughly extrapolating a “leaked” report by Newsweek Japan (affiliated with Newsweek Inc.).[source] This report came from “Istekral TV”, which frequently platforms the terrorist organization ETIM—the report was never confirmed.

On May 4, 2022, the BBC posted an article detailing what they termed the "Xinjiang Police Files", a collection of documents and other resources which purportedly proved accusations of maltreatment against Uyghurs. The documents were allegedly provided by an anonymous source to Adrian Zenz, who then gave them to the BBC. The documents in fact showed many Uyghurs working at the centers and that the centers had some Han Chinese detainees. Many articles used images of guns as a scare tactic without noting that these were images of security drills and that the magazines were empty. The articles associated with the files whitewashed the crimes of genuine ETIM members who had been a party in bombings such as Yusup Ismayil (with text placed over an image of Yusup reading "many have been detained just for ordinary, outward signs of their Islamic faith or for visiting countries with majority Muslim populations", with no citation for this claim). The Xinjiang Police Files "key documents" file metadata showed that Adrian Zenz and Ilshat Kobor (of the Uyghur American Association) had modified them, with metadata information being removed soon after release. The XPF website also posted demographic data, of which the number of male and female detainees added up to over the stated total in the same data.[source]

BBC claimed that Zamira Dawut was sterilized at a vocational center. Her brother, Abduhelil, said she had never been to a vocational center. Zamira said her father was arrested multiple times and then died of unknown causes. In reality, he was never arrested or even investigated and died of heart disease on 2019 October 12.[source]

On 2019 November 16, The New York Times reported on supposed leaked documents on Xinjiang. State media was quick to assert that these documents were not authentic, calling them "fabricated."[source]

Grammatical errors indicated that the documents were fake and likely translated from English to Chinese, with users further noting that the "leaked" docs did not correspond to the formatting standards of Chinese government documents (GB/T9704).source

In 2018 December, diplomats from Afghanistan, India, Indonesia, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Malaysia, Pakistan, Tajikistan, Thailand, and Uzbekistan visited Xinjiang and had full access to vocational training centers. They found no evidence of forced labor or cultural or religious oppression.

On 2019 January 29, an EU delegation visited. On February 25, about 200 representatives of 50 political parties from almost 30 countries visited Ürümqi. On February 28, diplomats from Algeria, Burma, Greece, Hungary, Morocco, Vietnam, and the Arab League visited. China offered to let the EU visit again in March, but it declined. On March 27, the Albanian and Serbian ambassadors to China (Selim Belortaja and Milan Bačević) visited. On June 15, Under Secretary-General of the United Nations Counter-Terrorism Office Vladimir Voronkov visited Xinjiang. Between June 18 and 21, diplomats from Algeria, Burkina Faso, the DR Congo, Laos, Malaysia, Nigeria, Serbia, Somalia, Tajikistan, Togo, and the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation visited. On August 19, diplomats from Bahrain, Cambodia, Laos, Nepal, Nigeria, the Philippines, and Sri Lanka visited. In September, diplomats from the African Union and 16 African countries, including Burundi, Djibouti, Lesotho, Sudan, Uganda, and Zimbabwe visited. In November, Fahri Hamzah, former Deputy Speaker of the Indonesian House of Representatives, visited Xinjiang. On November 11, the World Bank visited Xinjiang and found no abnormalities in the vocational centers.[source]

On 2019 January 6, Reuters visited Xinjiang. Starting on January 9, 12 media representatives from Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Egypt, Sri Lanka, and Turkey visited. Another media delegation from Egypt visited on January 29. On February 22, 11 journalists from Indonesia and Malaysia visited. On 2019 May 7, NPR released its report on a visit to a vocational center. On 2019 June 18, BBC visited a vocational center. Starting on July 14, journalists from 24 countries, including India, Iran, Italy, Japan, Pakistan, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Thailand, Turkey, the USA, and Uzbekistan visited Xinjiang. On August 17, a media group from Afghanistan, Bangladesh, India, Japan, Kazakhstan, Pakistan, Qatar, Russia, Turkey, and the UAE visited. On August 29, ABC News visited a vocational center.[source]

On October 10, 2021, as Xinjiang was slowly opening for tourism, the Associated Press traveled to Xinjiang in order to investigate the measures taken by the government. They concluded that the genocidal policies had existed at some point but had been done away with before the opening measures, although the article still critiqued certain things they felt stifled Uyghur culture.[source]

A response was posted afterwards by The New Atlas which bemoaned several of the article's pretensions.[source]

I really dont know anything about that vice thing but i think this should suffice yeah?

I understand why its easy to believe that china is committing genocide and i get why you might distrust china. You would be right to based on the information you are fed, no judgement i promise. Personally I trust the US and US based sources a lot less however

[–] TheGenderWitch@hexbear.net 3 points 1 day ago

this does suffice just fine, thank you!

[–] HexReplyBot@hexbear.net 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy: