here is the link, its locked by the way beware of the quasi-fascists that are the western europeans
edit: its really easy to attract the islamophobes in this chat
this post was submitted on 31 Oct 2020
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the_dunk_tank
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It's the dunk tank.
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What i find amusing and illustrative in this argument is replacing "draw Muhammad" with "saying the n-word" and it being the same fucking argument.
Basically we've got a lot of americans on this site who rightfully feel guilt at kicking disadvantaged people in their own country, but fuck off about caring about the disadvantaged people in other white imperialist countries, they can suck my dick if they don't like it.
How the hell is satirising a highly questionable religious figure the same as the n-word now? We fans of religious authority now?
If you wish to undermine religious authority that means reducing the number of religious adherents.
These divisive tactics with insults, misrepresentations, and minority oppression are not effective towards those ends.
Islamophobia is playing into our enemies hands; they rule via divide and conquer.
As leftists what we should aim for is mutual understanding and cooperation.
We want religious (and non-religious) people to become more accepting, reasonable, and less reactionary.
Insults only put people into a defensive position. And this only empowers religious authorities.
When people publicly insult Mohamed, where do Muslims turn to for support and solidarity?
You have to be more pragmatic about this. There is no slippery slope when your position is rooted in utilitarian concerns.
If freedom of expression were meaningfully at risk then we could simply pivot our tactics.
Those who insult Islam have done nothing wrong; but those insulting Islam to hurt and marginalize Muslims within society are no better than any other bigot.
Terrorist attacks in response to such expression is already systematically opposed, so what more do you want?
Mosques and Muslim communities are already under surveillance throughout Europe.
Freedom of expression does not mean we have to celebrate every time somebody says something that offends others.
If anything, freedom expression used in this way and on such a scale, causing violence and social unrest, is what puts freedom of expression seriously at risk.
If I thought that via Mohamed cartoons within three years we would have millions more ex-Muslims; then absolutely publish away.
But this same shit has been going on for over a decade and I don't think it's working.
this sounds like a catch-22. if anti-Muslim criticism is indistinguishable from well intentioned one then it sounds easy to just accuse everyone of being anti-muslim.
i want criticism of religion to be normalized.
But it is. 10 years ago you wouldn't even hear of the concept of atheism or LGBT people, you'd never hear of people criticizing Islam at all and now you see people on TV do it. Now you see scholars scurry to prove Aisha was 18 when she had sex with Mohamed, declaring sexual harassment to be a sin and arguing maybe *don't * kills the gays and the converts. Normalizing topics works, of course there will be resistance. Sometimes violent but ultimately it works. Dawkins gets a lot of well deserved flack but his edgelord book and common public appearances did reach here, all the way in the Arab world. His book on atheism, got translated unofficially and downloaded over 10 million times from one site.
Ah we're calling bigotry "satire" now, that's clever.
He's a religious figure and the guy's been dead for 1400 . How can anyone be possibly bigoted against that?
I'm tired of this shit. Comparing a racial slur with mild religious criticism or even pointless mockery is an extremely dumb take. Especially in a context where someone got beheaded over it
islam and race are intertwined in the west though. Non muslim arabs are considered Muslims by the general population if they don't say otherwise. so directly antagonizing muslims is racist.