this post was submitted on 23 Feb 2024
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Death to NATO

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For posting news about NATO's wars in Ukraine, Serbia, Kosovo, and The Middle East, including anywhere else NATO is currently engaged in hostile actions. As well as anything that relates to it.

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[–] OrnluWolfjarl@lemmygrad.ml 65 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (3 children)

A lot of writing in that article is bad, but this takes the propaganda cake:

Russia also has the advantage of time. While Putin can lead Russia along a single strategic trajectory regardless of the length of the war, the U.S. is subject to the whims of democracy. The White House and seats in Congress change hands. Policies change as voters grow weary of supporting other countries.

It's like an onion. There's so many levels to these 3 sentences, that if I start peeling them apart, I'll burst into tears.

[–] Saint_Seiya91@lemmygrad.ml 47 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Incredibly out of reality. They are essentially implying that only the west is accountable to their constituents while the East can do whatever they want because the population is “brainwashed”.

Meanwhile the US state is in a constant state of governing against the interests of their own people.

[–] die_livster@lemmygrad.ml 33 points 8 months ago

they want because the population is “brainwashed”.

it seems like a form of the "asiatic hordes" theme that has been so prevalent for so long

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 31 points 8 months ago
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[–] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 55 points 8 months ago (4 children)

Two years ago, the Ukrainian Armed Forces defied expectations immediately. Days before Russia’s massive combined arms incursion, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley spoke for the U.S. military when he predicted to Congress that Kyiv would fall within 72 hours.

Many military analysts similarly predicted the Russian Armed Forces would quickly rout the overmatched Ukrainians. American leaders encouraged Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to leave the country, lest Russian troops assassinate him.

This whole narrative has to have been pure bullshit, right? The West had been arming Ukraine since 2014, Merkel even admitted the Minsk II agreements were just stalling for that purpose, and if you sell Ukraine as this hopelessly outmatched smol bean that's certainly doomed, it's easier to rally public support when it "somehow" beats all odds to hang in the fight. It's classic setting expectations at zero so anything looks like success, and fits with how often the media has ran with the "full scale" descriptor of the Russian invasion.

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 35 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley spoke for the U.S. military when he predicted to Congress that Kyiv would fall within 72 hours

So finally there is is, the long awaited source for the all time favourite liberal bullshit that Kiev will fall in 3 days. And of course it was a projection too since it was said by US general, not Russian.

[–] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 21 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I think the Belarusian president had a similar statement, too, but that's still not Russia.

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 17 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Possibly, Luka does sometimes like to exaggerate to push a point

[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 16 points 8 months ago

They definitely could have won much faster if they went for carpet-bombing (as they thankfully understood they should not have done), as they are still easily among the strongest air forces on the planet.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 23 points 8 months ago

Yeah, but now this is the canon in the west that has to be incorporated into any future narratives.

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[–] NikkiB@lemmygrad.ml 51 points 8 months ago (2 children)

"While Putin can lead Russia along a single strategic trajectory regardless of the length of the war, the U.S. is subject to the whims of democracy."

My three biggest flaws:

1.) I work too hard.

2.) I care too much.

3.) I would've kicked your ass if my bros didn't pull me away.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 30 points 8 months ago
[–] 7bicycles@hexbear.net 11 points 8 months ago

4.) I have too much street wisdom

5.) My heart is too big

6.) I smoke more different than anybody

7.) my allies too bad

[–] QueerCommie@lemmygrad.ml 41 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Maybe it’s just because I’m a determinist, but they could never have won. This was the only possible outcome because it’s what the conditions amounted to.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 30 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Pretty much no serious experts thought Ukraine could win. The fact that so many leaders in the west convinced themselves it was possible shows that any serious debate is dead. They just surround themselves with sycophants, and live in echo chambers where everybody just repeats what they all want to hear.

[–] QueerCommie@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 8 months ago (3 children)

If there's a 90% chance that something would happen a non-determinist would say there was still a 10% chance something could succeed. A determinist would look at what happened and figure out how there was a 100% chance it would happen regardless of the initial odds.

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[–] LeniX@lemmygrad.ml 30 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

That's not being a 'determinist', that's just plain old mathematical certainty, considering Russia's powerful industrial output, technological superiority, population advantage and supreme military experience. Also - overpriced NATO wonder weapons proved their papertigerness.

The US, the neocon monsters, those with actual competence... My take is - either the vast majority of them or ALL of them knew the impossibility of victory on the battlefield. That was not the point anyway

[–] QueerCommie@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 8 months ago (7 children)

I know, I'm just wondering if I'd imagine there were different possible outcomes if I believed in free will.

[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 19 points 8 months ago

Free will doesn't include willing a thermobaric not to kill you when it has just detonated at your feet.

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[–] WIIHAPPYFEW@hexbear.net 35 points 8 months ago

Stage 5: Acceptance

[–] Kirbywithwhip1987@lemmygrad.ml 33 points 8 months ago

Implying that it even had something of a chance to begin with

[–] Giyuu@lemmygrad.ml 32 points 8 months ago

Thehill can eat shit. Their entire shtick was to corral Bernie supporters into a dead end so they wouldn't actually radicalize.

[–] Mzuark@lemmygrad.ml 31 points 8 months ago (1 children)

When did Ukraine be home the most important country in the world?

[–] taiphlosion@lemmygrad.ml 36 points 8 months ago

Right? Back in 2014 it was the most corrupt with a neo-Nazi problem, I was reading articles about it in 2016

[–] AOCapitulator@hexbear.net 30 points 8 months ago
[–] xkyfal18@lemmygrad.ml 25 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

And the sky is blue and grass is green… We pretty much knew this ever since early 2022 lmao

[–] Lemmygradwontallowme@hexbear.net 24 points 8 months ago (1 children)

What can I say? Slava baloni

At this point, they'll be fine to consider Ukraine still existing a 'victory'...

[–] ComradePupIvy@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 8 months ago

Give it 2 months of blissfull scilence on the topic as they hope we all forget about it before they tout the victory

And also at the same time proof putin is reforming the USSR

[–] sinovictorchan@lemmygrad.ml 21 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Analysis of the article that is seemingly biased towards Pax Americana:

  • The Kyiv government have inferior military resource in both quality and quantity. This implies that the claim by Pax Americana news outlet that Russians used outdated weapons that is so inaccurate that it targets civilians by mistake was a mere projection of attacks on civilians by Kyiv and Azov thugs.
  • The Kyiv government depends completely on USA government for support against the humanitarian intervention from Russia. This implies that Euromaiden Kyiv government lack democratic support which implied that the 2019 Ukraine election was rigged or unrepresentative of the whole Ukraine population.
  • Putin engaged in attrition which gave advantage to Russians since it cause the slow loss of military supplies, morality of troops, and external support of Euromaiden Kyiv while Russia have sufficient supplies and support for the humanitarian intervention. This implied that the claim by Pax Americana that Putin is losing military resources, morality of soldiers, and support was a lie. It also contradicts the previous Pax Americana claim that Putin was wasting too much national resource in the war or that Putin was aggressively expanding Russian "occupation" of Ukraine. This also has the implication that Putin honestly follows his claim to only engage in humanitarian intervention for protection of rebelling states.
  • The article did not mention the justification that Putin have for the military intervention nor the context which implies genuine Pax Americana biases.
[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 21 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I find every article from western mainstream media has to be packed with these cliches nowadays. They squirrel the admissions in between, but they have to pour on copium on top.

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[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 12 points 8 months ago

I hope you're getting something out of that writing exercise, since I think everyone can clearly see "thehill.com" in the url and come to the same conclusion

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[–] American_Communist22@lemmygrad.ml 17 points 8 months ago (2 children)

remember back when this first started how confident libs were

that fucking ukraine could win a war of attrition against Russia, while using nazis? Russia won the moment they actually committed to the war.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 14 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The amazing part is that a lot of libs still think Ukraine can win this.

[–] American_Communist22@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 8 months ago

heres how hiliary and ukraine and bernie can still win-

[–] MatBC@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 8 months ago

I always claimed that Russia won in the first speech where he said that if other European foreces interfere they would not have time to think before they are dragged into the conflict. That significantly restricted the range of actions Europe and even the US had to strike back. That in my opining all but ensured that Ukraine would loose

[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 14 points 8 months ago

Lol @ the big red "the views expressed in this article are not necessarily the views of the Hill" up top, above even the headline.

[–] bruhbeans@lemmy.ml 10 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Was the goal ever to win? I assumed the goal always was to have another permanent stalemate backed up by endless US arms sales; basically a second Israel.

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[–] dutchkimble@lemy.lol 10 points 8 months ago

That guy looks like Chris O'Dowd

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