chat

These same people cry about things like "russiagate" and foreign influence on our population whenever it does something they don't like.

the problem is setting it into a binary, foreign-supported groups can be completely mercenary or just as wholly dedicated with no aid at all, and there's a million shades in the middle based on complicated material and ideological bases that are not easily investigated.

but lacking interviews with actual actors involved which the vast majority of people never get to do, it's easier to put people in one or the other box without too much research, whatever melds best with your existing worldview.

People can legitimately support something and it can also be ultimately puppeted by imperialism. Also “denying the agency” of the international mercenaries lmao

The whole "agency" thing is a misnomer (if I'm using that word correctly), it's obvious that people have their own reasons for acting a certain way but america is the only world power with the means and the willingness to ACT and drive events that might've erupted independently towards their own gain

Anyone saying this is the self determination of the Syrian people is a snake or a fool. The country has been illegally occupied, bombed, sanctioned, and flooded with weapons by foreign powers for the last 40 years. I had no particular love for the Baath government but it's extremely clear that Syrians were not allowed to sort their issues out themselves independent of foreign interests. That after two generations of foreign meddling a significant portion of the population aligned with US imperial interests either of their own accord or supported by the US is of no surprise.

And now look, Israel is taking advantage of the situation to grab territory, fascists are in charge, and it seems unlikely that Russia will be forced out, so who even wins here? Only the imperialists that want Syrians chained down and exploited.

The groups exist regardless of America, but American support ensures that they are able to seize power, and are manipulated in certain directions.

People are affected by material conditions, and the USA is very good at manipulating those material conditions from afar. That's all.

'agency' or 'free will' are nonsensical concepts with no significant shared definition. People's actions are ~99% based on their material and social contexts, and those contexts are heavily controlled by central authorities, some of whom are in turn heavily controlled by the USA.

All I know for certain is if the empire, the zionist entity, and their stenographers are all celebrating, it is not my party.

First of all, agency isn't a get out of jail for free card. Fascists need to have their human agency stripped from them and rightfully so. Second of all, "the people of Syria," whatever the hell that means, aren't really celebrating either. Most Syrians seem to just be keeping a low profile and just praying that the new people in charge won't make their lives a living hell. It really has more in common with a medieval warlord and his medieval army pushing out another medieval warlord from the fiefdom with the peasantry hoping that the rampaging army doesn't loot too much of their shit and steal too much of their livestock.

There's some truth to it, often US proxies and/or puppets act in ways that the US doesn't want, but they still follow the overall plan. I'd also ask the libs in particular if they think the same applies to the DPR/LPR and Russia.

I mean people’s agency can definitely be suppressed, constrained or limited by circumstance. Including geopolitical circumstance.

Ukraine for example has very little option between being the puppet of the US and having large parts of its economy sold off to western companies or having its territory seized by Russia regardless of how much the Ukrainian people thirst for freedom.

assad doesn't have to be a good leader or even particularly loved by syrians for the fall of his government to be the first step in enormous suffering and oppression. it's happened before, it'll happen again. over and over until the end of the empire.

I mean of course it is, but the only question is whether it is true. Whole peoples can be backed by a group and thereby lose agency due to their influence. But more typically it is not whole peoples, it is a subset, and they achieve outsized power due to funda from the outside group. This will have undermined the agency of everyone else.

IMO agency discussions are usually bad faith liberalism trying to avoid discussing the material forcea of geopolitics. Sometimes it is valid, but usually it isn't.

Literally just ask, Cui Bono?