this post was submitted on 20 Aug 2023
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chapotraphouse
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What do you call 2000 dead businessmen? A good start.
So you want all businessmen, firemen, EMTs/Paramedics, secretaries, receptionists, janitors to be executed because of their complicit support of capitalism and NATO imperialism?
No, Just the bourgeoisie.
Not sure where you got the idea that we'd wish harm to our fellow proletariat simply for providing indiscriminate aid in a crisis.
I just find this very reductive. Just because someone was working in the WTC doesn't make them the bourgeoisie. Maybe I don't understand class distinction well (actually I know I don't), but I find takes like these wild and dehumanizing.
on hexbear we kind of play up our 9/11 banter to contrast with the way most westerners talk about the event. It's just frustrating when people seem to not give a shit what came before or after 9/11 and have no perspective on the magnitude of suffering we have caused. Around 4.5 million people have died due to America's post-9/11 wars. Countless more died from all the shit we stirred up in the decades prior. We also funded, armed, and trained the same dudes who attacked us. The whole fucking thing is blowback, but most westerners either don't know or don't care.
Thanks for the context and the link to the report. I definitely agree with most of what you said, the damage that America has caused is magnitudes more than 9/11 and actions taken by America continue to contribute to radicalization. I can see why someone would say that America deserved 9/11, but I guess what doesn't sit right with me is joking that the actual individuals impacted by 9/11 deserved it or trivializing their deaths. Just like the people who were impacted by Americas unjustified actions in the Middle East didn't deserve it. I do share the frustration though, so thanks for the response.
This is a pretty cool reply tbh
The initial deaths were about 3000. I think they gave 2000 as a rough estimate of the proportion that were businessmen and other finance ghouls.
Heres a very good starter guide on the subject of Class distinction that you may find useful.
https://youtu.be/Nd7cohTdRAo
Thanks for sending this, I have actually seen this one before. I really enjoy Second Thought!
There is a slight difference in quality between a working class person who took a job to help people, or do what they can to survive. Compared to a rich person who works in the world trade center doing marketing to make sure children get as much extra sugar in their diets as possible. Or someone who's job it is to make sure bread costs slightly more so everyonecan suffer and a rich man can get a better yacht. Or any of countless other godawful things that makes the world worse. In an objective moral sense stopping them makes the world better. Each of those people will cause more harm any misery than they could ever justify. Maybe not in as dramatic a way as blowing up a building, but making billions of peoples lives worse and harder for decades will add up to far more harm done than than 9/11 caused. It does hurt to think about because in the west we have been denied any systematic moral or ethical education. A grumble in our tumbles when we think about huge things isn't a sign of ethical understanding however.
Now, add to the fact that all those 2k who died had a genocide done in their memory and the situation become starkly clear.
That is exactly what they said, good job reading and comprehending