161
Imagine being afraid of the ‘friend zone’
(hexbear.net)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 31 Aug 2023
161 points (100.0% liked)
chapotraphouse
13507 readers
1445 users here now
Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.
No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer
Vaush posts go in the_dunk_tank
Dunk posts in general go in the_dunk_tank, not here
Don't post low-hanging fruit here after it gets removed from the_dunk_tank
founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
Yes it is a real concern. And honestly, I think leftists are terrible at giving dating advice, especially when it comes to men. There are some considerate leftists that actually give concrete advice (like start exercising, find clothes that fit better, maybe trim the beard so it looks nice, get a good haircut or shave it completely if balding, try to look people in the eye instead of looking down all the time, learn small talk, learn banter, learn how to express romantic interest, find that difference between confident and creepy and know when you've crossed it, etc.) Most of the "advice" I see is just "don't be a r!pist!" and "don't harass women!" Like bro that's obvious, but to the guy that's constantly getting rejected, especially when apps like Tinder make it so the a few super good looking guys pretty much clean house (and this dynamic absolutely spills over into offline interactions), there needs to be better advice.
When this advice is lacking, or people dismiss these young men because "there are so many other problems why would I care about MEN!", this can lead to alienated young men finding their way into reactionary spaces. In this case a little prevention is worth ten tons of cure.
And lastly, I'll say this, it's completely disingenuous to remain "friends" with someone after you've been friendzoned if you initially had romantic feelings for them and those romantic feelings still persist. Unless your feelings magically also changed to platonic ones, then there's a relational imbalance that will always linger. It's better to just say "hey I like you in a more romantic way and even though you want to be friends, perhaps it's better that we don't hang out."
At one time I thought I’d try my hand at being a “leftist dating advice” person, just given my perspective as being now over 40 and in a long term relationship. But I’ve since come to the opinion that all generic dating advice is mostly pointless. Trying to understand what you are doing wrong (or right) in dating is just too specific to each individual person, IMO. We all just have too many blind spots when it comes to ourselves. Not to mention so much of getting dating right is “be like this but don’t go too far in the other direction either”.
I spent so much time and energy in my single days trying to read up on dating advice and try to figure out what I was doing wrong. But ultimately what I was going wrong was a few things that were hyper-specific to myself, and generic dating advice wouldn’t mention that or if it did, I didn’t realize it applied to me.
I guess if I had any dating advice, it would be to ignore generic dating advice and try and have people in your life (friends, family, even exes) who know you well and will be brutally honest with you. And you have to be brutally honest with yourself, or otherwise you will never be able to internalize what other people tell you.
That, and being with someone is also a leftist, sympathetic to your political views, or at least apolitical but cool if you want to do praxis or occasionally rant about stuff like how capitalism evolved out of feudalism is pretty dang important.
So I'm kind of torn on this, because of how I keep hearing about romantic relationships causing orgs to basically implode. It's like there are so few leftists that when people meet in an org it becomes desperate people meeting other desperate people and basically forgetting the whole point of the org.
I don't know, in my experience they'll never be brutally honest with you. Actually, they may not even know what to tell you in the first place and they may actually think that you're "a catch" so to speak and "who wouldn't want to date you!" I actually think hiring a dating coach might not be a bad idea, because they can assess you and actually give you good advice. And it would be specifically tailored to you.
Yeah I guess in my head, I was thinking specifically outside of leftist orgs you’re involved in. Can be pretty problematic if you value at all the work the org does. Honestly I think relationships with folks who aren’t leftist can work well so long as they’re broadly sympathetic to your views.
And I also agree that it’s hard for even friends or people close to you to figure out your issues. Not to mention there’s plenty of folks who don’t have friends like that in their lives. I like the idea of a dating coach. Also, I think if you work on being radically honest with yourself, you might be able to help yourself some. Like with myself, I think deep down I knew my problem was actually taking those first steps and taking chances, but I never wanted to admit it to myself.
That's essentially what the PUAs from the 2000s were. It was only towards the end of the 2000s and the early 2010s that you started to see that stuff morph into the "manosphere" and "red pill" stuff you see today.
you think the pua's of the 2000s weren't misogynistic?
I'm sure there was some there but it was mostly just guys who had gotten rejected a lot trying to figure out how to be more confident, dress better, and learn how to talk to women. Later on people started to mix politics in with it (i.e. "women are only like this cuz of feminism, liberalism, etc.")
it was always creepy from the get go, you familiar with Neil Strauss? you might benefit from hearing about his experience. like this is not good.
Yeah I know who he is. He actually had trouble with women even though he had backstage passes as a writing for rolling stone magazine. It wasn't until after he learned the dating skills that he was able to be better with women.
Maybe a therapist? Not like, in an accusatory 'you need therapy' kind of way - I just mean they could fill much the same role as you describe a dating coach filling, while also helping you deal with some of the rejection sensitivity that is often at the root of dating anxiety.
I mean I guess, but... I hate to use this term, but I think the therapist is only going to give you "blue pill" advice like "be yourself" or other useless platitudes. Unless the therapist has themselves dealt with this and somehow conquered it, I highly doubt a therapist would help.
My current therapist encourages me to trip shrooms and explore Hegel because that is what works for me. If you find a good one then they will quickly realize the traditional line of advice isn't what you're looking for. That said, I've also seen my share of awful therapists so I understand your hesitancy.
a good therapist, on seeing a person come in and say "I'm troubled by this problem", will see if the problem is fixable. If you're super stressed because you're working 60 hours a week, your therapist should say "stop working 60 hours a week, and here's some techniques to ease the symptoms while you figure out how to stop doing that".
Bad luck dating is only somewhat fixable, since you can't control the minds of others. So a good therapist should push you to get better at dating if that's what you want, but also help you to become happier being single. (Drifting off-topic, I think being happily single is a lot easier after you've dated a bit, and now have the self-confidence that comes from knowing you could get laid if you felt like it but don't want to. Which may be one reason why single women are generally happier than single men. I hope this doesn't come across as mean but I'm clocking you as a younger, relatively inexperienced dude?)