the_dunk_tank

edit: I archived it but it's still processing. They're definitely wiping this thread soon- https://archive.is/wip/1MGOG

Before now, he's already been smeared as a pedo and clip chimped to hell. But it's at least been possible to argue against each of those clips and sound rational. "It's out of context" was our rallying cry to his defense. From there, we can succinctly reframe his initial points about "cp vs child labor," or "the need for consistent utilitarian ethics," or "he was just complaining about how much hentai has a problem with forcing pedo shit into it," or "he was just being edgy in a meme discord before he was a streamer," or "he was naively arguing a point about the way socialism affects power dynamics when he was younger," etc., etc., etc.

But you didn't sound rational. You sounded like a paedophile defending another paedophile because saying "tankie" with your friends makes you feel smart. Normal people could just plainly point to the paedophile saying something terrible and acknowledge it for what it is. Vaushites either couldn't or wouldn't and both are equally damning/unconvincing. If people stopped responding after you said that it's because they feel disgusted interacting with a paedophile.

edit: Jesus, they can't make up their mind between telling non-believers to go look at the photos to prove they aren't CSAM or asking each other for links to the photos so they can prove to themselves that it isn't CSAM.

https://www.reddit.com/r/VaushV/comments/1aoj5jz/its_so_over_feeling_very_doomer_folder_rant/kq0weqc/

It s really sad cuz if you actually look up the pics they aren't bad at all. People are just choosing to call it cp to further their own agenda.

Is there an accurate list of high res ones out there? I saw one one from twitter at the start of the drama, but imo the low res thumbnails didn't really match with the added images, so I don't want to base my own judgment off of that, unless it was actually accurate.

https://www.reddit.com/r/VaushV/comments/1aoj5jz/its_so_over_feeling_very_doomer_folder_rant/kq04sa9/

I wouldn't say "its not that bad" but instead encourage them to just look it up themselves, because i feel like 90% of those who claim its cp or whatever actually havent looked at the pictures, but is just taking h3 at their word

"Did you look at the alleged cp" is NOT a good strategy.

If you phrase it like that sure im not arguing for that

That's what it's going to sound like to anyone who isn't already on his side.

https://www.reddit.com/r/VaushV/comments/1aoj5jz/its_so_over_feeling_very_doomer_folder_rant/kq2j5sg/

Yeah, I don't even want to look it up and I'd like to defend Vaush as I think he doesn't have bad intentions. The hentai/bestiality adjacent stuff is something I can't relate to and again, from "knowing" Vaush I'm sure he considers whatever it is harmless but looking at porn for too long can really be desensitizing. There have been moments where I asked myself what the hell I was watching. I bet if the most objectionable porn anyone watched was known lots of people and most who are addicted would seem like absolute weirdo creeps.

This is a hyper-normal response to someone being caught with CSAM. Note this user says "The hentai/bestiality adjacent stuff" but doesn't mention children in that as he goes on to say that he has moments where he asks himself what the hell he is watching and would seem like an absolute weirdo creep if people knew.

https://www.reddit.com/r/VaushV/comments/1aoj5jz/its_so_over_feeling_very_doomer_folder_rant/kq0cdv6/

You understand how that looks, right? Like actually listen to that exchange:

"You are defending a pedo picture haver." "No, I'm not, you should look up the pictures."

Like, I've asserted it in conversation too, but we have to be realistic about how that sounds to most people.

Ok but you don't have to say it like that lol

The problem is there really isn't a way to say it that doesn't seem insane.

https://www.reddit.com/r/VaushV/comments/1aoj5jz/its_so_over_feeling_very_doomer_folder_rant/kq077cx/

Like you said in your post, defending him is just gonna make us look like unhinged loli defenders. You know what I wish our reaction was as a community?

“I don’t really care about the horse shit but the loli was definitely weird. I’ve watched his content long enough to know he’s not a p*do but it’s not a good look. Anyways, there are actual fascist threats in the United States and Palestinians are facing a genocide so this drama is irrelevant anyways.“

And leave it at that. If people ask, “so you’re okay with being a fan of a pdo?” just don’t respond. I genuinely believe the lengths we go through to defend Vaush not only in this situation, *but in general, make us look like parasocial freaks. That’s why I almost never defend him unless it’s against the fans of a certain community I won’t mention.

https://www.reddit.com/r/VaushV/comments/1aoj5jz/its_so_over_feeling_very_doomer_folder_rant/kq0blok/

I know what you mean, and sympathize. When the leak first happened, I about died laughing. I saw the pics and laughed because it just looked like average hentai to me, and that it was such an easily avoidable leak made it all the funnier. I didn't think much else of it until the H3 podcast and I saw how people reacted. I actually went back to relook at the pics, feeling like I was losing my mind, because it seemed like everyone was talking about entirely different pics from the ones I saw. If nothing else, I think it's very clear to me now that even in leftist spaces there's a lot of reactionary level immaturity when it comes to discussions on porn and sexual fantasies, like it's still treated as taboo and shameful, to the point where people will outright lie to shame. I think the thing that's killing me the most about this right now are people flippantly casting everyone as a pedo. To the point where the H3 sub was poking fun at the term 'pedojacketing', because it's not a serious thing to them. As someone who's queer, and knows how queer this space is, I don't think I need to bridge why that bothers me so badly, and why it really rubs me the wrong way that that legitimate grievance is being brushed aside as unserious and used as further evidence to pedojacket. If I've gone doomer on anything, it's all of that. There's no way to argue against any of this, it'll never be taken seriously. They're literally willing to use info from 4chan to smear people. You'll just get hit with the same attacks, and trying to defend yourself in any way will make you look insane. It's genuinely depressing, and I really don't know what to say or how to say it at this point. All I do know is that while I doubt this will be the end of his career, I think it'll result in Vaush being further isolated as a figure, at least for a long while. Outreach will probably be more difficult, and I doubt any serious political figure is going to come anywhere near him now. As for Vaush himself, I know this is hurting him emotionally (he said as much briefly on stream when he brought up his haircut as part of why he couldn't debate Ethan), but I think his only real option is to stop addressing it and move on. This isn't a battle that can be won, and these were never the people who would ever take him seriously, or any of us seriously, for that matter.

https://www.reddit.com/r/VaushV/comments/1aoj5jz/its_so_over_feeling_very_doomer_folder_rant/kq0hgch/

My only solace is the distinction between labeling someone a pedophile and saying they have 2 images that could be interpreted as loli. I know the distinction, and I know from that that much more needs to be established to consider vaush a pedophile. What we have is essentially nothing.

WHY DO YOU KNOW THAT DISTINCTION.

https://www.reddit.com/r/VaushV/comments/1aoj5jz/its_so_over_feeling_very_doomer_folder_rant/kq16fnq/

I think a better way to approach would be to simply mention that the clips were taken out of context and if you actually look at the context it it’s not controversial at all. In fact the clips that started this were started by an actual Nazi. Ethan making these claims and using these clips further brings my case that he is a Nazi.

https://www.reddit.com/r/VaushV/comments/1aoj5jz/its_so_over_feeling_very_doomer_folder_rant/kq30htp/

I think it's natural to feel bad for Vaush in this situation. Do you think the bullying happening online is legitimate? Or do you only care to come here and try to make people feel bad?

https://www.reddit.com/r/VaushV/comments/1aoj5jz/its_so_over_feeling_very_doomer_folder_rant/kq35dg5/

My take on this, if someone were to ask, would be to simply say, "Yeah, loli shit is fucking bad. I heard the image in question was of a character who's canonically 16 but had also supposedly been aged up or something? I dunno, still sounds like an L on his part if so".

Ackshully sir have you heard of ephebophilia?

https://www.reddit.com/r/VaushV/comments/1aoj5jz/its_so_over_feeling_very_doomer_folder_rant/kpzwgw4/

MLK was unpopular when he died 🤷 being correct and unproblematic is a burden we bear in a world hell bent on making everything into the end of the world

MLK was unpopular because he wasn't racist not because he loved horse porn