Hypothetically, I imagine community group chats, whose members also text warnings to other locals not in the chat, and those people then spread the word further. When agents are seen lurking around town, someone sends the word out, and maybe people can even gather in person and follow the agents to warn passersby, film any arrests, remind people of their rights, and protest.

What's legal and what's not?

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[–] D61@hexbear.net 10 points 12 hours ago

Legal bounds?

The law doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

Would it work?

Its better than doing nothing.

Would it help?

Its better than doing nothing.

This thing you're describing is, at its core, a basic community defense thing. Everybody has a few phone numbers they can call/text with "news" when needed, no one person has everybody's number and no one person is responsible for contacting everybody. Letting people in the area know there are "strangers behaving strangely" or "hey, do you know what's going on with all the cops going door to door?" is not outright a crime.

Its not your job to know the immigration status of everybody around you or their family or to remember any conversation you may/may not have had with a person.

[–] tactical_trans_karen@hexbear.net 10 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

Alternative idea: Everyone has a rifle by their front door and agrees to [redacted] on sight. And signage around the community that clearly states that feds might enter, but they won't leave.

[–] stink@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 8 hours ago

If plainclothes officers knock on your door use the libertarian defense saying you thought they were intruders and dome them.

Pigs of the state don't deserve our empathy.

[–] CeliacMcCarthy@hexbear.net 22 points 1 day ago

what are the legal bounds of this

the law is fake, we're past that shit

if they want you they'll get you

[–] WizardOfLoneliness@hexbear.net 17 points 23 hours ago

The legality of it is going to boil down to how much you piss them off and who has more guns

[–] hellinkilla@hexbear.net 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Sounds like a way to send panic through a lot of people.

Do you have any involvement with relevant legal, political or social orgs who are already active? I'm sure the idea of a group chat has already floated thru every other brain. If its a good idea why hasn't it been done yet?

[–] iie@hexbear.net 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

so, panic happens if you're too decentralized and don't vet reports. The issue is that ICE agents are often in plainclothes

if there's no way to identify them, the idea's dead. I don't know if there's a workaround. Maybe watch for squads of people masking outdoors and walking with a purpose? Maybe surveil ICE stations? I don't know.

Another issue is that police might infiltrate group chats and harass members. And even if they don't, the possibility might scare people off.

I'm just brainstorming, that's all this post and this comment are. If any of this has been tried or not, or what the fatal issues are, I have no idea. That's why I'm asking.

Maybe these specific ideas are bad. I just think, somehow Americans have to turn the tide from "scared isolated individuals" to "emboldened communities with solidarity and strength in numbers." I figure the best way to do that is to demonstrate successful community resistance. Show that it can be done. Once resistance is possible, and not futile, that gets the ball rolling for further resistance and further organizing. There starts to be morale. I picture an earthen dam breaking, a tiny hole erodes faster and faster until the whole thing comes down. If it starts to look like that's going to happen, I figure capital will have to either reign in the fash, or risk a crackdown that might backfire.

but yeah this idea might be shit, I'm just throwing it out there

[–] hellinkilla@hexbear.net 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I'm not hassling you, I'm asking you relevant questions. Why do you think this doesn't exist yet, at least in a way you know about it? I don't know your context but you do so I can't answer. The answer cannot be that you are the first person to consider the initiative. So seriously, why?

You could contact the most relevant local organizations and ask them if they have such a structure. If Yes, ask if you can join or help. If No, ask why.

Infiltrated isn't even a question. What you describe would be de facto public and open to all.

How could reports be vetted? Call ICE to ask? Minimum number of reports? Lawyer substantiating?

Assuming you could get 100% accurate information perfectly vetted, what action would be taken on this basis? You thinking a flying squad? Armed self defense? The entire neighborhood fleeing? Lob water balloons full of paint?

[–] iie@hexbear.net 4 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago)

I don't feel hassled, but I do want to stress that this is totally hypothetical. My context is that I'm curious, and maybe threads like this will spur someone to have a good idea

If by "de facto public" you mean "not secure" then yeah. I said "infiltrate" because someone would still have to either join the local chat, find an informer, or hack in. All three of those are totally doable, and would happen, but it's more involved than looking up a twitter page. But yeah, if the cops want in they'll get in. The next layer of defense is to have only documented people without warrants in the chat itself, and keep things legal, so if cops harass them "it could happen to anyone" and there's a bigger risk of a scandal. Undocumented people would get word from chat through contacts who are in it, but would not be in it themselves.

For vetting and actions to take, I figure it goes like this: someone suspects possible agents, posts photos or video and says "I think these people are with ICE," then the group discusses and chooses whether to act. If yes, chat members warn everyone in their contacts, and those people pass it on to their contacts, and so on. Anyone undocumented in the area steers clear. Maybe people also show up to protest the agents, blow their cover, and film any arrests. This might be impossible with plainclothes agents in unmarked vehicles. But maybe this would force agents to stop masking and show their faces to blend in, which would be a minor win.

I don't know if avoiding ICE agents is a viable strategy, though. Also, even if avoiding agents does work, a lot of victims will probably be at work when they are approached, and might be unable or unwilling to evade, especially if there's no proof that the people in plainclothes are really from ICE.