this post was submitted on 06 Jan 2024
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[–] Wertheimer@hexbear.net 80 points 10 months ago (6 children)

From the Atlantic article they link:

I cannot overemphasize how little there was to do before we all had smartphones. A barren expanse of empty time would stretch out before you: waiting for the bus, or for someone to come home, or for the next scheduled event to start. Someone might be late or take longer than expected, but no notice of such delay would arrive, so you’d stare out the window, hoping to see some sign of activity down the block. You’d pace, or sulk, or stew.

Dude, read a book. What the fuck?

I don't have a smartphone and am happy to answer any other questions.

[–] emizeko@hexbear.net 51 points 10 months ago (3 children)

seriously, I would bring a book wherever I went. these people are intellectual voids

[–] Wertheimer@hexbear.net 54 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Earlier in the Axios thing they talk about people watching Friends and Seinfeld to understand the before times. But they're forgetting Elaine aghast at Puddy for not reading on a plane. "You're just gonna sit there, staring at the back of the seat?" "Yeah."

[–] Parsani@hexbear.net 37 points 10 months ago

Puddy was just idlemaxxing

[–] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 29 points 10 months ago (1 children)

You'd be surprised how little most people actually read books.

[–] emizeko@hexbear.net 23 points 10 months ago

I feel alone even in a crowded room

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[–] sooper_dooper_roofer@hexbear.net 32 points 10 months ago (10 children)

Boomers, Gen Xers and elder millennials are now the last people who remember what it was like to use a pay phone, a paper map, a typewriter, etc. — and they're being rapidly outnumbered by younger adults who don't.

younger millennials and even elder zoomers remember those things, at least the pay phones if nothing else

I'm a YM and I've used all of those things

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[–] HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net 21 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Do you have some kind of portable device that allows others to instantaneously reach you?

[–] Wertheimer@hexbear.net 23 points 10 months ago

I do have a dumb phone, but I have disabled texting.

[–] star_wraith@hexbear.net 17 points 10 months ago

I don’t like how the author said this, I but kinda agree with what they are getting at. Any time I’m in a line or waiting for something, I just pull out my phone and amuse myself. Before smart phones, in those situations I was usually just alone with my thoughts. I’m now at the point that being alone with my thoughts can make me a bit fidgety and uncomfortable.

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[–] Philosoraptor@hexbear.net 72 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Most people just watched A LOT more television.

[–] SuperZutsuki@hexbear.net 39 points 10 months ago (3 children)

I think they still watch a similar amount. They just also have their phones out now

[–] Philosoraptor@hexbear.net 32 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Yeah I guess that's another big difference: people used to mostly only be able to consume one dumb thing at a time.

I think the difference is maybe more pronounced with young people. I remember being like 12 and just... sitting there and watching whole episodes of TV shows, back to back, with commercials and everything. I can't imagine most adults today doing that, let alone kids. You were just sort of captive to whatever happened to be available right then and there. It was usually something you'd seen before, but what else are you going to do? You could read books, but you were also limited to whatever you physically had picked up from the bookstore or library.

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[–] HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net 24 points 10 months ago (6 children)

there's a pop-sociology book written in the 80s, Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman, that convincingly argues against the dominance of mass media. It has some major flaws, which I will allow you to discover for yourself, but its conclusions are very compelling and I think it provides some useful tools for evaluating the deluge of "informative" content.

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[–] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 59 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Cell phones didn't become commonplace until I was in my teens. Before that, we were free! If someone didn't show up when they were supposed to and they didn't answer their home phone we just assumed they were dead and then moved on with our lives. If your car broke down, you sat on the side of the road with your sunshade inside-out and it had a message that asked people to call for help. Presidential Shootings were much more common place. Shoplifting was way easier because there were so few cameras. MTV played music videos!

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[–] Aryuproudomenowdaddy@hexbear.net 47 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

Before smart phones I carried a book everywhere I went and would pull it out at any point I'd generally reach for my phone now. I also got lost driving a lot.

[–] drinkinglakewater@hexbear.net 30 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I'd always have a portable CD player or radio and would get to be the navigator during family roadtrips and read from the map book

[–] optissima@lemmy.ml 26 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Hearing people as old as my boomer parents be confused by the amount of physical maps in my car currently is always jarring.

[–] CrushKillDestroySwag@hexbear.net 20 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I've got a big ol atlas because I read somewhere that over-relying on google maps messes up your ability to function without it. It was super inconvenient at first but now I know offhand the direction and distance to just about every city in my county - and this after an entire lifetime of thinking that I had a terrible sense of direction, the truth was I had just never developed it.

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[–] oregoncom@hexbear.net 46 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I've met many zoomers who just stopped using a smartphone for several months or years. Myself being one. It's not that hard. Boomers need to put their ipad down for once.

[–] SuperZutsuki@hexbear.net 21 points 10 months ago (7 children)

If you're not addicted to ordering food delivery and social media there's really no need for one outside of maybe job requirements.

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[–] privatized_sun@hexbear.net 45 points 10 months ago

things were more boring

way to tell on yourself you fucking dud! milhouse

[–] SorosFootSoldier@hexbear.net 36 points 10 months ago (5 children)

Video games came with manuals that had sections for notes and people actually put notes in there, this was before youtube walkthroughs.

[–] take_five_seconds@hexbear.net 18 points 10 months ago (1 children)

renting final fantasy 2 at blockbuster that had an end game save on it

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[–] star_wraith@hexbear.net 35 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Give me your downbears all you like: If you’re not old enough to remember having to call friends up using a landline to try and organize anything or just talk, it is nearly impossible to comprehend how much this sucks compared to group chats and texting. Making phone calls suck and I’m so glad I never have to do it anymore.

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[–] Mardoniush@hexbear.net 35 points 10 months ago (3 children)

I remember all of this. You read books or a newspaper or listened to music in a queue. Maybe you played a gameboy

Libraries were more commonly used, as were encyclopaedias and later progams like encarta

We had calendars and diaries for meetings.

Most ofnthe same things were there it just wasn't in a tiny box and it was a bit more awkward.

[–] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 20 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

One thing that I think is really interesting to consider is how the information landscape has changed and what implications that has.

Before the internet and the prevalence of the "modern" internet, if you wanted to learn about something (especially if it was very new), then you almost certainly had to be exposed to PR to learn about it. This is especially true if you weren't an academic, so the majority of people.

I think this allowed marketing and PR to have a really captive audience especially because the lag in information was much longer. A news article could run in print media in under 24 hours with a narrative and the message would disseminate amongst people and the next turnaround time for something rebutting or debunking this narrative would be at least another 24 hours, assuming a different journalist was capable of producing an opinion piece with a really quick turnaround time or someone like a commentator or expert might be able to do the same in a letter to the editor (where they would get a tiny column that a lot of newspaper readers wouldn't even bother to read). But in realistic terms it might take a week or a month or longer for a countervailing narrative to emerge if people needed to hear about the article, track it down, do some independent research, and produce something that they might have to shop around in order to get it published somewhere. And then that countervailing narrative often has a lag time where it needs to circulate amongst people, often fairly gradually.

It was much easier for people to get hyped up on bullshit products or services and to be spun a lie or a carefully curated half-truth that could take root long before something more evenhanded and reflective of reality could begin to supplant it. If that latter part ever happened at all.

Now the way that marketing and PR has to function, as well as the thing I'm going to refer to as "narrative curation" (think stuff like Wikipedia or review sites which aren't actually PR but which aggregate info and which tend to preference certain information while deemphasizing other info in a conscious way), is largely very different because the speed at which information travels, the hugely expanded access/ready-accesss to information (yes, technically anybody could go to their local library immediately after receiving info to fact-check and develop a deeper understanding [as long as it was open] but in effect nobody was really doing that and so ease of access is at least as important to consider as a theoretical level of access), and the way that sources of information have been... I don't want to say decentralised because that's not accurate, but more like proliferated or something.

It's also interesting that another major difference is that this older model of information access meant that we structured ourselves to this access, in the sense that people would need to schedule their time around getting the news broadcast or they would have to listen to the radio program at the time that the radio program was playing.

Now I think that we have a situation where our schedule is not structured to our access to information anymore but, because our info access is on-demand, we are structured by our information access in the sense that the boundaries of time and place on information are mostly dissolved and so we become the demographics that are distinguished by how we primarily access our info - think the person who gets their news and politics from streamers on twitch vs the person who gets their opinions shaped by R*ddit comments and moderators vs the people who get their info from their TikTok feed, for example - and then this creates marketing profiles and algorithms that then dictate what info gets served to us; before this, the vast majority of people in the UK would watch the BBC and so there wasn't really a BBC "demographic" that you could describe in any particular detail. It was "British person who owns a TV and regularly watches it as their main source of info and entertainment", or virtually every British person.

I don't know where that leaves us.

I guess I'm just going to say that cultural critique is fascinating and all that but it's mostly just a sideshow and the really important stuff is our material reality so, idk, join a party and get involved in your community or spend your time reading theory instead of thinking about what I've said as being anything more than a curious bit of musing rather than (partly) uncovering some deep truth.

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[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 35 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

A lot of stuff has been said so I won't repeat them, here's a weird one though - I don't know what americans experienced so this might be weird to those people but here on terf island a phenomenon that's not often discussed it that back in the day if you wanted to look at porn you could go for a walk in your local patch of woods. Pre-internet there were piles of porn mags in every patch of woods in the country.

EDIT: Aww fuck "forest porn" is lower in the comments.

[–] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 18 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Generations of kids hiding them from their parents or something more sinister?

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 22 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Yeah kids I assume that stole them from the local top shelf or found a stash at home to steal.

Either way this is a serious thing that existed that everyone remembers when you remind them.

[–] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 22 points 10 months ago

I’m just imagining a sleazy porn producer doing his rounds. dropping off the weekly stack of playboys in each glade and copse to addict the local lads while they’re young.

[–] davel@hexbear.net 31 points 10 months ago

We still remember the ancient ways. If you separate an old from the internet for a few minutes, you can make them recall, though cutting someone off from the internet is torture under the Geneva Conventions.

[–] GaveUp@hexbear.net 30 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I remember getting in trouble reading books and pen spinning instead of paying attention in elementary school rather than doing the same with my phone in highschool

[–] flan@hexbear.net 27 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (5 children)

Boomers, Gen Xers and elder millennials are now the last people who remember what it was like to use a pay phone, a paper map, a typewriter, etc

idk elder millennials were children pre-internet, their experience isn't going to be the same as gen x or boomers who were adults by the time the internet became so ubiquitous. By the year 2000 there was ICQ and AOL Instant Messenger and texting and Unreal Tournament with online matchmaking. So maybe you werent playing Roblox on your iPad while waiting for your Pizza Hut but you could go home and frag some noobs after eating garlic sticks till you puke in the non-smoking section.

[–] DongWang@hexbear.net 18 points 10 months ago

I’ve always argued that it also depended on your economic upbringing. I’m right on the cusp of millennial, but my parents couldn’t afford internet until my junior year of high school. Yeah, the internet existed but it might as well not have, outside of someone bringing halo to school on a usb I missed most of it.

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[–] StellarTabi@hexbear.net 27 points 10 months ago (9 children)

my brain deleted all my archives of playing gameboys (or those weird plastic single-game things), carrying an analog book to IRL read when not home, begging my mom to let me goto the rollerrink, the tall man in the forest, reading MAGAzines, huddling a 22" for the latest episode of whatever weekly shitcom, the phone cable not being long enough to chat outside the kitchen, pogs was before my time but I definitely would have dated a diamond league pog champion, finding a quarter and buying a soda with it, teachers doing nothing about that little shit jeff yanking my hair, doodling in a notebook made from treepulp.

[–] kristina@hexbear.net 24 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I remember always reading books. Now I read posts from communists sitting on toilets

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[–] JohnBrownNote@hexbear.net 26 points 10 months ago

sometimes you'd find porno mags in the woods

[–] flan@hexbear.net 23 points 10 months ago (2 children)
[–] sooper_dooper_roofer@hexbear.net 22 points 10 months ago (5 children)

I still remember when the term "porn" as a suffix after words like "food" "landscape" "city" used to bother me

actually still does but it's so far past the point of return

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[–] GrouchyGrouse@hexbear.net 21 points 10 months ago (5 children)

Bring back landlines, latch-key childhoods, wood panel TVs

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[–] SoloboiNanook@hexbear.net 21 points 10 months ago (6 children)

The nutrients shit was GPS.

There was that sweet time before GPS was commercially real for people but the internet was becoming common where you put locations in mapquest and printed out a sheet of directions.

If you couldn't read a map you were kind of fucked. I didn't get a cell phone until I was a junior in high school. I knew my area VERY VERY well when we were growing up cause you were fuckin lost otherwise and we were always roaming around smoking weed and doing dumb shit.

Some folks I know nowadays who always had GPS have no fucking idea where ANYTHING is or what the name of anything is. People who lived here their entire lives and can't get to the closest town without GPS. Its crazy lol

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[–] Evilsandwichman@hexbear.net 20 points 10 months ago

When I was young I just read novels for fun; that's it. If I didn't know something, I'd try and look it up on my father's digital encyclopedia, but obviously it still didn't know everything. If I didn't know something though it was fine, you don't have to know everything.

[–] CrabAndBroom@lemmy.ml 19 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Before cellphones you had to guess which building the person was in and call that, instead of just calling the person. Or you could leave a voicemail at their house and they'd maybe get back to you at some point in the next week or so.

If it was an emergency and you couldn't get them, you'd call everyone you could think of who was in the general area of where they might have been, and send them out to look for them.

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[–] Hexbear2@hexbear.net 17 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Celebrating learned helplessness is cringe.

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[–] drinkinglakewater@hexbear.net 17 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I think this isn't something specific to the internet and smart phones, it's just the sheer ubiquity and convenience make existing without them unfathomable despite plenty of people in the world living without it, like electricity or running water.

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[–] hexaflexagonbear@hexbear.net 17 points 10 months ago

No onw can remember

Yeah because it was probably mostly drinking.

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