this post was submitted on 06 Sep 2023
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[–] WhyEssEff@hexbear.net 105 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

hypersus IT'S AN ALLEGORY FOR FASCISM
hypersus IT'S LITERALLY WORD-OF-GOD AN ALLEGORY FOR FASCISM
hypersus IT COULDN'T BE ANY MORE CLEAR-CUT
hypersus YOU CAN LITERALLY GOOGLE THE PHRASE "WHAT IS WARHAMMER AN ALLEGORY FOR" AND YOU WILL GET THAT AS A FRONT-PAGE RESULT

[–] WhyEssEff@hexbear.net 54 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

prime contender for one of the most "no investigation no right to speak" a g*mer has ever embodied mao-aggro-shining

[–] CrabAndBroom@lemmy.ml 51 points 1 year ago

I know basically nothing about Warhammer, so I typed it into image search to see if it was super obvious and this was on the first page of results.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's probably not a subtle allegory lol.

[–] Infamousblt@hexbear.net 34 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

But see Krieg Imperial Guard have gas masks and I like gas masks and you know the swastika is really just religious imagery and well you know war is brutal so you really have to just do whatever you can against the fake plastic armies of Chaos and space elves and undead robots and green men and those weird things that spit acid at you so actually YOU'RE the fascist for even bringing it up to begin with!!!!!

[–] barrbaric@hexbear.net 30 points 1 year ago (2 children)

No you don't understand Krieg is inspired by a combination of all the forces from WWI which is why it's okay for someone to paint theirs like the afrika korps and add swastika transfers. pronounjak

[–] FALGSConaut@hexbear.net 32 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Oh God that reminded of some chud that was trying to argue that his afrika korp "inspired" imperial guard army (complete with custom afrika korp emblems but with the swastika replaced with an imperial aquilla) wasn't fascist and didn't make him a fascist. Spoiler: the rest of his account was wheraboo-level Nazi tank worship including pictures of a whole-ass shrine to them he made complete with anime girl nazi officers

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[–] KobaCumTribute@hexbear.net 32 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Warhammer Fantasy is different from Warhammer 40k, but it's pretty much just a piss take on how horrific and shitty sword and sorcery fantasy worlds really are, cutting away all the anachronistic romance and replacing it with horror and filth. It's basically satirizing fantasy monarchist apologia and romanticism in the same way 40K directs that towards fashy sci-fi.

Neither setting does a particularly good job with the satire though, imo, to the point that I'd almost say 40K is more "what if Judge Dredd went back into space and we took this to a whole new level of silly? Like we could do a Judge Dredd/Dune crossover with like elves and shit, lmao," than it is even the sort of tepid and still-brainwormed satire that Judge Dredd was.

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[–] YearOfTheCommieDesktop@hexbear.net 25 points 1 year ago (2 children)

yeah top result on google is "it's an allegory for germany" (the empire)

a little further down I found this: https://br.ifunny.co/video/warhammer-is-an-allegory-it-s-a-commentary-on-fascism-yd0RLTL29

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[–] Rom@hexbear.net 81 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's going to blow their minds once they figure out who the Empire in Star Wars was an allegory for.

[–] CrabAndBroom@lemmy.ml 55 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I'd like to have this person watch Starship Troopers and then write an essay on what it's about.

[–] usernamesaredifficul@hexbear.net 57 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 27 points 1 year ago

While listening to "Dixieland" on electric violin.

[–] Plibbert@lemmy.ml 45 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I found his essay

"Cool soldier guys cleanse the galaxy of unholy xenos"

That's all it says, he turned in the same paper for the Warhammer essay too.

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[–] barrbaric@hexbear.net 29 points 1 year ago (2 children)

They'd probably think it was about how fascism is good. It doesn't go far enough imo.

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 49 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You can explicitly make the fascists into cartoon villains like Star Wars and still get people doing the "empire did nothing wrong" larp and unironically making support for fascists their identity through it.

[–] barrbaric@hexbear.net 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

To be clear I want a 20 minute long presentation and the start and end of the movie explaining that the federation are the bad guys, why their systems do not work, as well as an overview of the horrors of fascism. During the movie, the fascists must be depicted to be fundamentally wrong. Bonus points for them also constantly being portrayed as incompetent, by eg slipping on a banana peel every 20 seconds (and then being eaten by a bug, which are explicitly communist and also good).

EDIT: This unironically

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 29 points 1 year ago (30 children)

I think the issue is that you shouldn't make fascists "fun" or "cool" in any way whatsoever.

In both Star Wars and Troopers the fascists are undeniably fun and entertaining to ride along with. Fun, cool or entertaining things inevitably make people want to imitate or copy-cat them for funsies, and this rubs off into personal identity.

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[–] Mardoniush@hexbear.net 25 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The Monteverdi/Shakespeare school of Prologue writing. "We are the muses, sit down and shut up as we take 10 min to explain to you exactly what this story is about and what moral lesson you should take from it. We will be back at the end with a chorus illustrating this, There will be an exam."

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[–] Drewfro66@lemmygrad.ml 60 points 1 year ago (5 children)

The grandaddy of the fantasy genre, Tolkein's Lord of the Rings, is so old it's an allegory for the evils of the Industrial Revolution.

[–] abc@hexbear.net 27 points 1 year ago

The grandaddy of the fantasy genre, Tolkein's Lord of the Rings

George MacDonald/HG Wells/William Morris erasure!!!

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[–] axont@hexbear.net 59 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I once got a whole room of guys to laugh when I mentioned the X-men comics are an allegory for persecuted ethnic, religious, sexual, etc minorities. That one is the most clear allegories out of any popular media, and yet people still don't get it. The mutants are clearly oppressed, they're not typical superheroes who are fighting crime out of some intrinsic feeling of superiority. The X-men are organized and militant to defend themselves from discrimination.

The 2000s era X-men movies are even more clear about it, although they squeeze the allegory down so that mutants specifically represent queer people. You've got teenage runaways, unsupportive families, and there's a whole theme of mutants figuring themselves out around the age of puberty. There's a line in the second movie where one mutant's mother asks "Have you tried not being a mutant?" which is a parody of a common conservative line from the time "Have you tried not being gay?" I mentioned all of this and only got one guy on board because I mentioned the director, Bryan Singer, is gay. Then he was able to believe there's gay stuff in the X-men.

I think some people only engage in media because it's comforting lights and sounds they can distract themselves with

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[–] Poogona@hexbear.net 41 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I remember the first time I saw (and loved) There Will Be Blood I had an argument with a friend about it. He hated it and said he didn't understand who could enjoy a movie like that--"everyone was so shitty, who am.i supposed to root for?" I was kinda floored by that, because I remember thinking it was amazing and near-perfect. To me it was like a surgical diagram, delving much deeper than some trite ethical parable into the minds of the powerful and the power-seeking, and demonstrating the world they perpetuate.

Not saying I was right when I disagreed, but I realized we were watching movies for different reasons. I had my foot in the real world, enjoying media for how it interacts with it, while he was enjoying movies as something to utterly submit yourself to. If a movie doesn't have a good slot for him to sit in, he's homeless in it. In some ways he probably enjoyed media more than I do.

[–] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 26 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sometimes similar people to that revel in "everyone is an asshole" stories if what they get out of it is "therefore status quo good, pick your favorite ruling class monster to quote and emulate." You can often tell when those stories come about and how they'll be received when the supposed worst character is the one that is trying to improve society somewhat instead of just oinking and rolling in shit like everyone else in it.

[–] Poogona@hexbear.net 25 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"These are bad guys, good thing that's not us" stories hit different than "nobody can be good actually" stories, sure

[–] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 24 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"nobody can be good actually"

This can sometimes miss its audience as the intended message. Look at how many people idolize and imitate Walter White walter-breakdown or even fucking Patrick Bateman. bateman-ontological

[–] Poogona@hexbear.net 26 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Tony Soprano is probably the best example. Undeniably a compelling character, constantly wavering in a sort of moral blind spot and making you think about the reliability of the signifiers we look for in figuring out who to trust. For some he's just an awesome dad who kicks ass and gets shit done

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[–] beef_curds@hexbear.net 40 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They followed it up with:

Where's the gender dysphoria in warhammer then?

Good stuff.

[–] axont@hexbear.net 35 points 1 year ago (18 children)

I think I know this one. There's at least one cosmic entity, Slaneesh, that is some kind of genderfluid, but she/he/it is portrayed as evil or something. I don't know the lore well The 40k humans though are like an exaggerated parody of the worst attributes of fascists, medieval crusaders, and British colonizers. They were initially parody but nerds completely lost their ability to detect satire, but I've read the devs haven't been so great about indicating the humans are not supposed to be admired.

[–] Sinister@hexbear.net 29 points 1 year ago

I remember back in the 2014 times when slaneesh was considered to be the cause of “lgbt+ people” by “corrupting” heteros. Like the fash pipeline was huge back then. As someone who loves warhammer, it was almost impossible to find creators who weren’t in alt-right pipeline.

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[–] Wheaties@hexbear.net 38 points 1 year ago (4 children)

You gotta start small with Yankees.

Tell them The Lorax isn't only about trees, challenge them to figure it out on their own.

[–] ClimateChangeAnxiety@hexbear.net 34 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It’s incredible how bad literacy education is in this country

[–] FemboyStalin@hexbear.net 30 points 1 year ago

I always sound like a crackpot whenever people say anything about low media literacy. It gets me yelling about the CIA, anti communism, and how it's all a race to the bottom.

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[–] macabrett@hexbear.net 38 points 1 year ago (1 children)

sometimes the ~~curtains~~ space fascists are just blue smuglord

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[–] HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net 38 points 1 year ago (2 children)

i freakin hate "modern day mentality"!!!

retvrn to tradition! (eating fruit gushers and watching nickelodeon)

[–] iridaniotter@hexbear.net 31 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Retvrn to tradition (⅓ of Han emperors were bisexual)

[–] machiabelly@hexbear.net 26 points 1 year ago

return to tradition (China only stopped being gay because after the century of humiliation they decided they had to copy the west to survive. China, just like everywhere else was pretty fucking gay before the christians fucked it up)

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[–] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 34 points 1 year ago (5 children)
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[–] PZK@hexbear.net 32 points 1 year ago

To these kinds of people, nothing is political until their views are challenged. Politics dominates every facet of their life and they only notice when a necessary change is pointed out.

[–] UmbraVivi@hexbear.net 32 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

All art, all stories are an expression of one's own thoughts and ideas. All stories are about inner and outer human conflict. Your characters' goals, motivations and the adversities they face will always be dictated, or at the very least strongly influenced by your ideology and world view. No fascist will ever write about a communist utopia positively. No communist will ever uncritically write about a great man pulling himself up by his bootstraps to become a billionaire. If you're an "apolitical gamer" you will unquestioningly write about whatever you're finding in the trash can of ideology at the moment. Similarly, everything you write will be tainted by "modern day thought" because everything we have ever experienced has happened in the modern day, including learning about the past. Every fantasy world is merely a reinterpretation of ours and every sapient fantasy race is allegorical to humans in some way, whether you intend it to be or not. We cannot comprehend non-human conflict and thus human conflict is all we can write about.

These people really do believe the curtains are blue, huh?

[–] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 25 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (9 children)

These people really do believe the curtains are blue, huh?

yea

I once had a prolonged and fruitless argument in a video game guild chat with someone that insisted the 1980s GI JOE cartoon was perfect because it "had no politics and no political agenda." galaxy-brain

He even topped it off after a while with "did anyone ever tell you... the curtains are FUCKING BLUE?" smuglord

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[–] FlakesBongler@hexbear.net 32 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Warhammer Fantasy

Europe is full of savage anglos chomping at the bit to kill each other and the only thing stopping them is the fact that there are other countries they can go after

Also, Scotsmen hold grudges

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[–] autismdragon@hexbear.net 28 points 1 year ago (2 children)
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[–] JohnBrownsBussy2@hexbear.net 27 points 1 year ago (8 children)

This is about Warhammer Fantasy. Literally every faction is an allegory/pastiche for a specific historical nation/culture.

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[–] SootySootySoot@hexbear.net 25 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

Ah yes, the genetically modified, cloned, super-soldiers who all hail an iconic god-emperor, who in reality died long ago. They gleefully genocide their way through the universe in the name of this corpse that never cared about them in the first place. They all internalise insane amounts of trauma and death and claim it to be a good thing.

Definitely don't think about the parallels with current hegemonies on Earth that also cultishly worship long-dead symbols that justify suffering of the masses, depersonalisation, eugenics, and genocide.

To me, 40k's spes mariens were always a warning to society - This is the direction you're headed if you keep this shit up.

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