Link bcs I'm not a lib https://hexbear.net/comment/4162419
this post was submitted on 26 Oct 2023
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the_dunk_tank
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It's the dunk tank.
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I will stipulate that these are two separate and distinct types of act:
But it must be acknowledged that all of those acts make it more likely that Trump will be elected President than Biden.
This is the paradox along the lines of "if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."
I believe that reasonable people could conclude that "doing things that make it more likely Trump will be elected President" could reasonably be called "just like voting for Trump" even if no ballot FOR Trump is cast.
If that’s the case, donating any amount of money has a significantly greater effect on electoral outcomes than a single vote. By withholding “your” money that would otherwise increase the likelihood of a Biden win, it becomes more likely that Trump wins.
Therefore, every dollar you fail to give to the Biden campaign makes you personally responsible for increasing the likelihood of a Trump presidency far more than you personally voting for Trump does.
If I vote for Trump and give Biden $100k, I’ve increased Biden’s electoral chances more than someone that just voted for Biden and gave nothing. If you voted for Biden and haven’t given him $100k, you’ve actually deprived him of far more potential net electoral power than I could give to Trump with a single 3rd party vote.
This is true, every lib who doesn't take a vow of poverty and donate everything to the party is a monstrous hypocrite helping Trump win
Is poverty really an excuse? With Democracy on the line, is the time you spend sleeping each night really worth taking the money that time could earn away from Trump's only valid competitor?
Oh fuck you’re right. No-sleep November, only thoughts and prayers. Gotta put in the work for this Biden bread
I can hear the exact same thing from every party, therefore I'm voting for every candidate at once and committing voter fraud.
You need to view things on a systemic level instead of personal participation in isolated events. If all the people who want good things will unconditionally support lesser-evilism, why would the Democrats ever give them concessions? Why would they do anything other than what they have been doing, pandering to moderates and conservatives, while the people who have some idea of what good policy would be get browbeaten into supporting them anyway?
Perhaps Trump does get elected because of this, but then that is the Democrats choosing letting Trump win over even a somewhat moderate position on Palestine, or healthcare, or whatever. What better case could you make to the people that there needs to be a new major party if not that? What better case could you make even to the fucking Dems that concessions are necessary if not that?
If you step back, it becomes obvious to the point of truism that the strategy you endorse is precisely why it's always a matter of the "lesser evil" and never a matter of any real "good".
Vote for an lesser evil and you get evil and less.
Or alternatively, now you have two evils and you just made one of them stronger.
the person this was about was trying to organise a bloc of arab american voters in swing states were their support was crucial to biden winning in 2020 to threaten to withhold their votes if biden didnt stop sending Israel 14 billion dollars a year to carry out ethnic cleansing against palestinians and being their most steadfast supporter in the world, if biden goes ahead anyway and loses the election because of it its entirely on him.
we always hear this argument that the voter base of the democrats has to continually compromise more and more with the right until there's almost nothing left for them but never that the democrats need to compromise with the voters, if Biden was willing to stop supporting zionist fascism abroad the democrats would instantly win a very loyal voter bloc of arab americans, but if he doesnt then he'll almost certainly lose the next election, at this point the crux of the matter is how committed Biden is to supporting fascism to further american interests abroad that he's willing to let the openly fascist president return at home too, or whether he'd rather not throw away the election to support a war criminal who's killed 50% more children in just 3 weeks than putin has killed in 2 years in ukraine.
This for real! If the us is such a champion of democracy, why is it the voters who have to compromise with the politicians and not the other fucking way around? THEY are the damn civil servants -supposedly- not you.
But then again, everyone on grad know that is just a facade and that the us for all it's posturing about "liberal democracy", "separation of power", "multy parties system" and others pseudo-democratic liberal brainrot, completely fail to answer to the will of the peoples no matter who is elected, which is why we mostly dont bother with voting.
Do you believe that genocide is acceptable?
I live in NY, my state is guaranteed to go blue no matter who I vote for but even if my vote decided the whole election I still couldn't vote for Genocide Joe
If you voted knowing full and well it would decide the election, cause chaos and vote for Kim Jong Un
Have you donated everything you have to Biden's campaign? Have you helped canvas for Biden? Spending your time and money on yourself instead of on Biden's campaign made it more orders of magnitude likely Trump will be elected President than any one person's vote
If they're separate and different, no, you cannot reasonably say one is just like the other.
If you stuck with this you'd have a better point, but still not a good one. You didn't donate every cent you have to Biden, right? Well that made it more likely that Trump will be elected, too. If you think supporting Biden really moves the needle maybe you can be criticized for not doing more, but it would be ridiculous to say not donating your life savings to Biden = voting for Trump.
And of course Biden doesn't actually move the needle much, if at all.
Democrats don't seem very concerned Trump will win.
If this is so important why are they running such an unpopular, compromised, and frankly senile candidate? Why do they not only reject but actively and vehemently oppose political causes that have overwhelming majorities of support amongst the public? Why do they deliberately disenfranchise potential voters with undemocratic removal of voting rights from prisoners and by blocking paths to citizenship for immigrants and refugees? Why do they carry out voter suppression and make it difficult more difficult fornordinary people to easily vote? Why do they alienate their own party members and voters in favour of geriatric party bureaucrats, billionaire donors, and for profit mercenary consultants? Why is the go to tactic to scold, browbeat, and smear the public?
Seems to me that not doing/reversing those things make it more likely that millions of people will not vote for them, thus increasing the likelihood of Trump being elected. Why are the Democrats doing something that's 'just like giving millions of votes to Trump'?
oppa gangnam style
how come they can't follow the same reasoning and realize that not voting or voting 3rd party is also like voting for their candidate as well? Why does that logic just drop off the cliff before making that final turn to reach the finish line?
where did ya come from, where did ya go, I'll never vote for genocide Joe
Death to America
Yall really need to remember that THEY are the civil servants, not you. If they want to get elected, THEY have to give concession TO the voters, not the other way around.
If you are as democratic as you claim, why is it the peoples who have to listen to the party and not the party who has to listen to the peoples?
If they wanted to get elected then maybe that's on them for openly supporting a literal genocide, don't you think?