It's the dunk tank.
This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.
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https://teddit.zaggy.nl/r/Psychonaut/comments/18mth6c/peyote_is_the_darling_of_the_psychedelics/
Honestly this whole thread is a cesspool, pure psychic damage. There are literally functional alternatives, but still these self-enlightened egolords can't keep their fucking hands off an endangered plant. The prevailing attitude looks to be "Its there, so I i am entitled to plunder it"
I read the original article and the only thing I have against it is the anti-synthetic peyote stance they have. I get it's a sacred plant but if the option is people foraging it to extinction or letting them have a lab grown version then just let them make it in the lab. As much as I support indigenous folks in their anti-crakkker stance they don't have the right to the molecule itself especially if it isn't derived from peyote.
I assume that's the point of the first comment. Not "Let me forage this plant to extinction" but "If you say I can't have a synthetic version and I can't forage then what do you want me to do?" Just let them have the lab-grown stuff and keep the plants yourself. Less foraging, psych folks get their trips, everyone's happy.
Yeah i re-read the article a few times and came to a similar conclusion. At the same time - if they have an issue with white colonizers using synthetic ~~Peyote~~ mescaline, is that not also worth consideration and empathy? It subverts the supply issue, but it feels to me (as a white colonizer) like approptiation of someone's culture, against the protest of the people who's culture is being appropriated.
Should we really be forcing onto any indigenous peoples our views of whats "fair"? There exist many alternatives to mescaline, and I think their desire to not have it commodified and shared should be respected.
Appropriation isn't a marxist criticism. Stop using it in this way if you're going to keep saying it.
Can you help me understand what you mean, or point me in the right direction? I'm not exactly a well-read Marxist and I'm not trying to hide it
Appropriation is a value-neutral concept. And also not rooted in exploitation per se. There's an erroneous conflation here between colonialist appropriation which does material harm to the people being colonized as well as possibly being a component to the ideology of colonialism (like Israel taking Palestinian culture into itself to use as a justification of their superiority to them) which marxism will sometimes talk about, versus neutral appropriation like white people using synthetic peyote or American teenagers making vaporwave from '80s J-Pop.
It's not inherently disrespectful to use things without chaining ourselves to the original contexts they were used in. It can sometimes be harmful and/or disrespectful but idpol liberals literally only care about turning anti-imperialism and morality into arbitrary dinner etiquette. So they just call it all cultural appropriation and tell people not to do arbitrary things.
Good post!
I appreciate the response - I understand what you are saying. I do want to clarify that I'm not trying to argue from an arbitrary moral/idpol perspective. In the article in the linked thread, they interviewed a person who is a part of the Navajo nation, who argues explicitly against the consumption of Mescaline for outsiders, synthetic or not.
If I am understanding you correctly - that would shift this from being a purely value-neutral form of appropriation, to being actively harmful and disrespectful.
Does it? I kinda feel like you're approaching the idea of listening to native voices uncritically. Protecting their practices and ability to practice their culture is important, but the idea that their religious beliefs about nonpractitioners should be enforced isn't acceptable, just like it isn't from any other religion.
Certainly we should be protecting peyote, returning the lands it grows on to the tribes/NAC, and stopping others from harvesting it, but there isn't a justification for stopping people from using mescaline that was created sythetically or grown from other cultivated species. The theft and oppression that stops them from practicing their religion is harmful, but just using mescaline derived from other sources doesn't affect them or their ability to practice.